16 Elgin blues…

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  • #54136
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    Bob:

    I appreciate the response. I’ll try to get time to digest it in the next few days and then see if I have questions – I’m sure that I will. ;)

    Thanks again!
    Tom

    #54137
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1553

    Sounds good Tom.
    I also should add that you may find it easier to view the drop etc. from the dial side using the inspection holes. Also the banking pins are the easiest thing to adjust in this whole process. In fact it normally takes less than a minute to adjust each one after the stones have been set in place. I often move them in as I explained in my post just to do a quick inspection of an escapement. I think this is called ‘banking to the drop’ or something like that. I need to look it up to confirm the terminology. I know this flies in the face of what you may read online about not touching them but the adjustable banking pins make it easier for me to do a quick yet proper escapement inspection. So…since this movement is to practice on anyway then I would recommend practicing this and stone adjustments as much as possible. After a few times I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how easy this seemingly complex procedure really is.

    Hope this helps Tom!
    Bob

    #54138
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    Hey Tom, sorry I have nothing to offer but I am currently working with a couple of Elgin pocket watches. I rather enjoy working Elgin because as a beginner I find them to be as of my taste. My future intent is to get to where you and the others are already at. Best of luck with your situation and I will keep-up with this topic, only as a spectator and not a consultant. Thanks for this very interesting topic. Ed….. :|

    #54139
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
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    ewinrow:

    Hey thanks for posting. Here’s the status on the watch…

    I’m looking for an balance staff for it – the old one is a little short, so I really can’t do anything else until I get that situation fixed. I also have a railroad quality Elgin with a cracked friction fit bottom pallet jewel. So, I pushed it out and found a candidate at CousingUK. The pivot dia. is 0.14mm and the hole is +-3.14mm in diameter. The problem is that the biggest jewel is they have is 3.00mm. This is a time when I really need a steel push pin set as I am using my digital caliper which is no where nearly accurate enough. Since the jewel came out in pieces I’m left with trying to measure the hole. As the hole appears to be a little bigger than the jewel (and I’m not sure of that yet) I am torn between trying to find a parts watch with a good jewel or reaming the hole and putting a setting jewel in its place. Clearly, that will change the watch from its original state. Well…. the fun continues as does the learning. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

    Good luck and again… welcome.
    Tom

    #54140
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1553

    Hey Tom,
    You can turn a pin down until it just fits the hole and then measure the O.D. of the pin with a micrometer if you have one. If not then the caliper will give a more accurate reading than trying to measure the I.D. of such a small hole.
    As for the jewel…let me check to see if I have something here that you can use. I’ll get back with you on that.
    Bob

    #54141
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    Bob.

    Now why didn’t I think of that? I’ll do that and post the results.

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #54142
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    Bob:

    I turned down a steel rod to a press fit in the jewel hole and the diameter is 3.30mm.

    Thanks,
    Tom

    #54143
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    Bob:

    I suppose I could make my own bushing. That way, I can use a smaller jewel.

    What do you think?

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #54144
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1553

    Hi Tom,
    I checked my assortments but have nothing that matches your jewel. Does Cousins have a jewel with a slightly larger diameter same I.D.? Yes you could always make a setting but if you would like to keep things original and get it running for now you could make a bushing with same dimensions as jewel and press that in for now while continuing your search. This would give you a chance to do some small drilling and possibly make a small spade drill for that .14 pivot hole. Good practice! You can also buy small twist or Mascot spade drills. If possible try grabbing some mixed jewel assortments up on Ebay or maybe from Uncle Larrys or Dashto. I used to purchase gross assortments from La Rose but they are no longer in biz. I’m sure you’ll find some out there somewhere though. Always good to have on hand.

    Bob

    #54145
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    Bob:

    As usual, there is some really good advise here. The largest CousinsUK jewel is 3.00mm so its really too small. However, I thik I’ll grab some pivot drill for the purpose that you metioned. I did get a group of jewels from Egland, but there’s nothing big enough in there either. I think I’ll make a bushing as you say just for the practice until I find a jewel. There’s always something to learn – that’s what makes what we do so exciting.

    Thannks for looking and responding!
    Tom

    #54146
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    Hey Tmac, me being new to this, I to have a Elgin pocket watch having the same issues, I have taken this watch down a few times and as a beginner, might it be a problem somewhere in the barrel and or main spring assembly? (just asking.) This post has become a major learning issue for me and am going to keep-up with this. If by chance my thought is as of little thought or has already been covered, speak. Between you and the gang here, I’m sure both our issues will soon be resolved. I relish the challenge. Be talking at’cha. Ed…..

    #54147
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    Hello tmac. Ed here I am going to try to post a couple of pics to see if by chance you see anything unusual with them. I am still having the same problem as you with my elgin. One question, are these lever set or set by stem? I have noticed, if lever set the lever has been chewed-up and the stem set also fubared,(funked-up beyond all recognition.) Learning on halved-as_ equipment. Maybe by chance these pics will assist you also with your endeavor, doubtfully though. Fox walking-on my issue with caution. (DOUBLE SLOW…..) Hey anyway T, have a safe and merry XMAS….. Ed.
    PS, pics seem not to want to comply. New computer still learning it. As time goes on I’ll get it. 😥 😥 👿

    #54148
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    Ed.

    The 16s in the pics has been problematic for me, BUT have I been forced to learn some theory so it has been fun. Even with the mainspring and the hairspring assembly out, the train is locking up (this one has a a seperate cock for the pallet fork). I even went and adjusted (so called) the banking pins. Just to get the thing to spin I had to run them all the way out. I think that I’ve pretty well determined that the stones aren’t set properly – but I’ve been wrong before and I hope I am now too.

    I’m still looking for a replacement balance staff and may try turning one myself. This is a parts watch and has so many parts from other watches that I’m not surprised that it has issues.

    Have a good one!
    Tom

    #54149
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    @Bob Tascione wrote:

    Hi Tom,
    I checked my assortments but have nothing that matches your jewel. Does Cousins have a jewel with a slightly larger diameter same I.D.? Yes you could always make a setting but if you would like to keep things original and get it running for now you could make a bushing with same dimensions as jewel and press that in for now while continuing your search. This would give you a chance to do some small drilling and possibly make a small spade drill for that .14 pivot hole. Good practice! You can also buy small twist or Mascot spade drills. If possible try grabbing some mixed jewel assortments up on Ebay or maybe from Uncle Larrys or Dashto. I used to purchase gross assortments from La Rose but they are no longer in biz. I’m sure you’ll find some out there somewhere though. Always good to have on hand.

    Bob

    Bob, et. al:

    I have some additional jewels and a set of Mascot drill on order sol I am going to make a bushing for the watch to start with – just for the experience. I am curious about something however… how much success have you had using a closing punch from the Inverto staking set to reduce a jewel hole size? I have the reprinted manual from the K&D set that give a pretty good description. If I can get it down from 3.25mm to +-2.8mm then I can order a replacement jewel from CousinsUK. According to the instructions, one would close the hole from both sides of the plate, and then ream it back out to size – in this example, back to 2.9mm for a 3.0 jewel. I may be asking alot from this operation though.

    Thanks everyone!

    Tom

    #54150
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1553

    Hi Tom,
    Yes that’s a bit much. It would most likely hold but not something I would recommend. You might try contacting Al’s Clock Shop in MA. to see if they still sell vintage and antique watch parts. Ask for Theresa (Al’s daughter) and try to have info ready for her about the model etc. of movement as well as dimensions of jewel. If she is still selling parts then I’m almost positive she will have it! Good people. Please tell them ‘hi’ for me and also let us know if they are still supplying parts. Would be a good resource for many up here. Phone number is 413-527-0070.

    Hope this helps Tom,
    Bob

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tmac195616 Elgin blues…