16 Elgin blues…

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  • #48692
    tmac1956
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    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    All:

    I have an old Elgin 16s 17j that I’m rebuilding and it was in pretty bad shape as-well-as filthy dirty. After cleaning it up, I found a cracked jewel, a broken tooth on one of the gears, and a horn broken off of one side of the pallet fork. I had enough old movements lying around that I was able to replace these.

    So after replacing the mainspring and reassembling it, I noticed that the train was locked up when I tried to move it. When I took out the pallet fork and applied a few winds to the mainspring, everything would run as smooth as silk until the power went to zero. After that, I figured that it must be the replacement pallet fork, so I put in another one… same thing. Next I replaced the escape wheel… same thing. I went through about three escape wheel pallet fork combinations until I figured that it might be the pallet stones on the pallet fork causing the escapement to lock up – even though I find it hard to conceive that three different combinations would still lock up like that.

    Before I start trying to adjust the stones for lock, slide, and draw issues, I thought I would ask if there are any other (simpler) possibilities that I might have overlooked.

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #54092
    arutha
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 85
    • Total Posts: 1536

    Just a thought, as you know by now clocks are more my thing, but is the roller jewel ok in the pallet forks? If that jewel is a fraction too big could it be locking things up?
    Paul.

    #54093
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
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    Arutha:

    I forgot to mention that this is taking place before I ever got around to putting in the balance wheel assembly. The Elgin has a small pallet fork “bridge” (I know that’s not the correct term – someone please give me the correct name for it) that holds it in place allowing one to move the train without it flying apart before the entire thing is assembled, so I haven’t had to deal with that issue – yet. ;)

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #54094
    randy
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 39
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    Tom,
    When you say “locks up”, do you mean it runs a short time and stops,. or that you can get no action at all ?
    Have you tried to move the pallet fork manually back and forth with a piece of pegwood, ( with a few winds of power on the mainspring) and at the same time, watched the lock/slide action on the escape wheel ?
    Is the guard pin on the fork dragging on the movement plate ?

    Best of luck,

    Randy

    #54095
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    @Randy wrote:

    Tom,
    When you say “locks up”, do you mean it runs a short time and stops,. or that you can get no action at all ?

    No action at all.

    @Randy wrote:

    Have you tried to move the pallet fork manually back and forth with a piece of pegwood, ( with a few winds of power on the mainspring) and at the same time, watched the lock/slide action on the escape wheel ?

    When I put the pallet fork into the mix, there’s almost no action. It’s as if the pallet fork jewels won’t allow the escape wheel to unlock. What I can’t get past is the idea that three sets of pallet fork/escape wheels are doing the same thing.

    @Randy wrote:

    Is the guard pin on the fork dragging on the movement plate

    Best of luck,

    Randy

    I’ll check that.

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #54096
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1559

    Hi Tom,
    If what Randy suggests turns out ok then you may want to take a look at the banking pins. Might need to be moved out a bit.

    Good luck,
    Bob

    #54097
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
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    Will do Bob!

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #54098
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
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    Bob and Randy:

    The guard pin on the fork isn’t dragging on the movement plate. So I turned the banking pins all the way out. If I fiddle with the gears a little I can occasionaly get it to run for a second, but then it will lock up again.

    Any other thoughts?

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #54099
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1559

    Hi Tom,
    You’re gonna hate me for this but…you may have to turn the pins back in a bit! :D If they’re out too far you can get the same jamming effect.
    Do you have a book or article that shows how to adjust them? If not then we can probably cover it pretty well up here.

    Bob

    #54100
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
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    Bob:

    I have alot of books, but I don’t think I’ve seen a discourse on adjusting the banking pins. Most of them that I have recommend that one leave them alone. Clearly, I don’t follow directions very well. :) Actually, this is a study watch so I can take chances with it. I did ease them out slooowly, checking as I went but it didn’t seeem to have much effect (or is that affect – I always get that wrong.)

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #54101
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    Bob:

    I went to the my Chicago School of Watchmaking series, looked at Lesson 26, and found some information. Now I have the train running by turning the gears but once I get it going, if I ever stop then it locks again and I have to start giggling it to free it up.

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #54102
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    Hey Tom, can be frustrating cant it, I am sure you will get this thing up and running soon, I have had 4 different timepeices giving me trouble this last week, tons of time involved in each, happy to say all are running nicely now, justifying the time involved I have to say I accidentally learned alot 🙄 ….. Hope you get this figured out, I am curious ;) , William

    #54103
    randy
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 39
    • Total Posts: 594

    This might sound crazy..but can you post a few pics ???

    #54104
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    Randy:

    Here are a few…


    Thanks,
    Tom

    #54105
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1559

    Hi Tom,
    Looks like those banking pins are adjusted all the way out. Also looks like way too much lock on that exit pallet…could be the camera angle though. If you turn that pin in a bit you can reduce the total lock (slide). Take a look in your Chicago course to get an idea of ideal depth. The bottom pic is the perfect angle but I’m not able to see the lock with that shadow. My laptop screen may be the problem. I’ll check on another laptop to see if it lightens up a little.

    Thanks Randy and Tom for putting those pics up.
    Bob

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tmac195616 Elgin blues…