16 Elgin blues… – Watch Repair Clock Repair

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September 9, 2013 at 2:48 pm #48692
tmac1956
Participant
All:

I have an old Elgin 16s 17j that I’m rebuilding and it was in pretty bad shape as-well-as filthy dirty. After cleaning it up, I found a cracked jewel, a broken tooth on one of the gears, and a horn broken off of one side of the pallet fork. I had enough old movements lying around that I was able to replace these.

So after replacing the mainspring and reassembling it, I noticed that the train was locked up when I tried to move it. When I took out the pallet fork and applied a few winds to the mainspring, everything would run as smooth as silk until the power went to zero. After that, I figured that it must be the replacement pallet fork, so I put in another one… same thing. Next I replaced the escape wheel… same thing. I went through about three escape wheel pallet fork combinations until I figured that it might be the pallet stones on the pallet fork causing the escapement to lock up – even though I find it hard to conceive that three different combinations would still lock up like that.

Before I start trying to adjust the stones for lock, slide, and draw issues, I thought I would ask if there are any other (simpler) possibilities that I might have overlooked.

Thanks!
Tom
September 10, 2013 at 12:10 pm #54092
arutha
Participant
Just a thought, as you know by now clocks are more my thing, but is the roller jewel ok in the pallet forks? If that jewel is a fraction too big could it be locking things up?
Paul.
September 10, 2013 at 1:57 pm #54093
tmac1956
Participant
Arutha:

I forgot to mention that this is taking place before I ever got around to putting in the balance wheel assembly. The Elgin has a small pallet fork “bridge” (I know that’s not the correct term – someone please give me the correct name for it) that holds it in place allowing one to move the train without it flying apart before the entire thing is assembled, so I haven’t had to deal with that issue – yet.

Thanks!
Tom
September 10, 2013 at 7:57 pm #54094
randy
Participant
Tom,
When you say “locks up”, do you mean it runs a short time and stops,. or that you can get no action at all ?
Have you tried to move the pallet fork manually back and forth with a piece of pegwood, ( with a few winds of power on the mainspring) and at the same time, watched the lock/slide action on the escape wheel ?
Is the guard pin on the fork dragging on the movement plate ?

Best of luck,

Randy
September 10, 2013 at 8:43 pm #54095
tmac1956
Participant
@Randy wrote:

Tom,
When you say “locks up”, do you mean it runs a short time and stops,. or that you can get no action at all ?

No action at all.

@Randy wrote:

Have you tried to move the pallet fork manually back and forth with a piece of pegwood, ( with a few winds of power on the mainspring) and at the same time, watched the lock/slide action on the escape wheel ?

When I put the pallet fork into the mix, there’s almost no action. It’s as if the pallet fork jewels won’t allow the escape wheel to unlock. What I can’t get past is the idea that three sets of pallet fork/escape wheels are doing the same thing.

@Randy wrote:

Is the guard pin on the fork dragging on the movement plate

Best of luck,

Randy

I’ll check that.

Thanks!
Tom
September 10, 2013 at 8:50 pm #54096
Bob Tascione
Moderator
Hi Tom,
If what Randy suggests turns out ok then you may want to take a look at the banking pins. Might need to be moved out a bit.

Good luck,
Bob
September 11, 2013 at 10:13 am #54097
tmac1956
Participant
Will do Bob!

Thanks!
Tom
September 12, 2013 at 6:51 pm #54098
tmac1956
Participant
Bob and Randy:

The guard pin on the fork isn’t dragging on the movement plate. So I turned the banking pins all the way out. If I fiddle with the gears a little I can occasionaly get it to run for a second, but then it will lock up again.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks!
Tom
September 12, 2013 at 8:42 pm #54099
Bob Tascione
Moderator
Hi Tom,
You’re gonna hate me for this but…you may have to turn the pins back in a bit! If they’re out too far you can get the same jamming effect.
Do you have a book or article that shows how to adjust them? If not then we can probably cover it pretty well up here.

Bob
September 12, 2013 at 8:58 pm #54100
tmac1956
Participant
Bob:

I have alot of books, but I don’t think I’ve seen a discourse on adjusting the banking pins. Most of them that I have recommend that one leave them alone. Clearly, I don’t follow directions very well. Actually, this is a study watch so I can take chances with it. I did ease them out slooowly, checking as I went but it didn’t seeem to have much effect (or is that affect – I always get that wrong.)

Thanks!
Tom
September 13, 2013 at 6:16 am #54101
tmac1956
Participant
Bob:

I went to the my Chicago School of Watchmaking series, looked at Lesson 26, and found some information. Now I have the train running by turning the gears but once I get it going, if I ever stop then it locks again and I have to start giggling it to free it up.

Thanks!
Tom
September 13, 2013 at 2:01 pm #54102
willofiam
Moderator
Hey Tom, can be frustrating cant it, I am sure you will get this thing up and running soon, I have had 4 different timepeices giving me trouble this last week, tons of time involved in each, happy to say all are running nicely now, justifying the time involved I have to say I accidentally learned alot 🙄 ….. Hope you get this figured out, I am curious , William
September 13, 2013 at 5:26 pm #54103
randy
Participant
This might sound crazy..but can you post a few pics ???
September 13, 2013 at 7:18 pm #54104
tmac1956
Participant
Randy:

Here are a few…

Thanks,
Tom
September 13, 2013 at 8:11 pm #54105
Bob Tascione
Moderator
Hi Tom,
Looks like those banking pins are adjusted all the way out. Also looks like way too much lock on that exit pallet…could be the camera angle though. If you turn that pin in a bit you can reduce the total lock (slide). Take a look in your Chicago course to get an idea of ideal depth. The bottom pic is the perfect angle but I’m not able to see the lock with that shadow. My laptop screen may be the problem. I’ll check on another laptop to see if it lightens up a little.

Thanks Randy and Tom for putting those pics up.
Bob
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