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  • #49411
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    I thought I would start this thread with the intention of helping others with their decision of choosing certain tools from the vast array of products available to us as watch/clock people.

    I know personally, I mollyfoddle about this or that tool simply because there arent enough descriptions, too many varied opinions that really lead nowhere, and in the end, I’m more confused. So I’ll try to keep this as factual as possible and continue to add to the thread as new items are acquired.
    I’ll also post photos of the items with common items for size comparison..

    OK, first I gotta say, you guys that know me, know that I am not a fan of Bergeon, nor any of the Swiss tool manufacturers. Not because of their products, rather because of their arrogant attitudes, ludricrous prices, and the fact that they seem to think that we, the customer, are here to serve them 🙄 And that simply pisses me off 😆

    But anyway, I finally decided to upgrade my old, old set of pin vices. These are possibly some of the first Asian tools that entered the western market as I purchased them about 12 yrs ago, maybe more.
    They are the brass type with wooden handles which I think that they still sell at cousins UK. They are still great but… I needed a new set.

    I was looking at the Bergeon sets. Two styles are offered, ones with a square head, one with a round head. The square headed models are half & a bit the price of the round head set. For the life of me, I couldn’t find out why, apart from shiny coating on the round heads and a wooden box.

    So for economic reasons, I chose the cheaper (50 uk pounds + shipping) square headed type, half expecting to be disappointed.
    I’ve just tried the smaller size and the larger sized one, and I must say that they hold the work, in this case, a tiny jewel setting screw, very well.
    The heads screw/unscrew very smoothly and the feel is very good, not slippy, not heavy, just right. They are a brass base with a nickel finish.

    At first I thought the square head might be too large and get in the way, but this is not the case. They are double ended and have a fixed collet of different size at each end, you simply change the square head to the size you require.
    For pocket watches they would be more than sufficient for any holding job required.

    So from my first two uses, I am a happy camper and I would recommend this set. The box with the size range is posted below..

    Why can I hear Randy, Tom, & David laughing even though we are miles apart 😆


    #61355
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    Many people ask about broaches, mainly are the oversea models any good. They are, but I’ve had some that were not the actual size stated, which can cause a headache. The small Asian types tend to snap easily, another not good thing 😥

    Due to this, I broke down and purchased the large Bergeon individual sets. I’ve been very satisfied with the large sets, they are simply an excellent choice and well worth the initial investment..

    Recently, I’ve needed the tiny hair sized ones, so I picked up the small Bergeon smoothing broaches to complete my set.

    You can also purchase the full sets in one foul swoop, all the sizes are present and both cutting and smoothing come in their own nice wooden boxes. I was a bit put off initially to drop the 200 uk pounds to purchase both cutting and smoothing sets, so this is the reason I bought the sizes I needed at that time.. But in hindsight, I should have just got the boxed sets right off the bat.

    So this little set is the 0.05mm – 0.30mm Price from cousins UK 20 pounds.
    These are the smoothing broaches and I tend to use them for many things, some I shouldn’t but these little guys are tough and I haven’t broken any yet. So I would recommend the Bergeon sets to anyone thinking of purchasing the Asian types, a very good product, and it hurts me to promote the Swiss 👿

    #61356
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    STONES– You know I love em, I collect them like gold, my eyes light up like a christmas tree whenver I see them, stones are cool.
    If you ever have the inclination to read the history of abrasives, going back waay before the Romans, and a very interesting footnote about the first white settlers in America and their search, then subsequent joy of finding a quarry with new types of abrasive material etc etc, I’m sure you’ll find it facinating, or am I just a stone geek 🙄

    I needed some very small, tiny in fact, stones to work on pallet pivots. My choice for this were the Degussit mini stones.. I know, cUUte :D

    The three stones I chose were the triangle, flat & square. The sizes are 1mm x 50mm for the square, 3mm x 50mm flat.
    I also picked up the mini square Arkansas stone which is 6 x 6 x 100mm

    These little stones, also from cousins, are very good and I’ve found no problem reducing pivot diameter or just touching up rough pivots.
    I would however recommend purchasing the mini stone holder as the small flat especially, can break.

    #61357
    bernie weishapl
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 58
    • Total Posts: 1218

    Chris good stuff buy you are like me. I think I read or try to find everything on the net or reading everything I can. Drives my wife nuts. I am looking for a ham antenna for my amatuer radio. Yesterday she said just make a damn decision and move on. Sheeessshhh. 😆

    #61358
    randy
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 39
    • Total Posts: 594

    I’ll never laugh at you meine bruder,..only with you !
    I, like you , just hate the arrogance of them. Overall, they still produce many quality tools, and I even have a few 😮 .

    I have to say that some of their stuff is being made a bit cheaper, and some watchbreakers on the” other” forums are even noticing.

    That being said,..I like very much what you’ve shown.
    I would think that the square head vices would keep them from rolling off your bench in anything less than sea-state 6.

    Nice tools Chris..have fun with ’em

    Randall

    #61359
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1552

    Hey thanks Chris,
    I just checked out Cousins and didn’t know they had such a good selection of stones. Did you get one of those pens to hold the ceramic stones?

    Bob

    #61360
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    I’m happy to hear that I’m not the only one who takes a lot of time deciding on what to spend the rare commodity…..cash, on 😆

    I hope everyone will contribute to this thread, even if it’s something you’ve had for a while, brand over brand or even style.
    Many newcomers I’m sure will find it useful. Myself, even after messing around in this hobby for a long time, I’m still very lacking on the tools I always need but never seem to have. Ain’t that just a Sod’s law 🙄

    Bernie – please post your reviews of your antenna search, I’m sure that there’s a lot of air wave riders on this forum ;)

    Randy – yep sir, I’ve noticed that too and it always made me wonder how they remain in business selling such “luxury” items. But their stuff is good.

    Bob – No, but I will end up trying the pen tool. I was a bit too gregarious with the flat which now has a piece missing, purely my own fault. The tiny square/triangle are a lot sturdier and you could get away without a holder..

    #61361
    bernie weishapl
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 58
    • Total Posts: 1218

    Well here ya go Chris. I have a small plot in my yard that I can put a antenna. Problem is I want to work all 7 bands which could mean many antennas. So after doing a month or more of searching google and researching I came up with a compromise which had good reviews across the net. It is not perfect but will work in my situation. I am going to get a hustler 5 btv which will work all the bands I need with some better than others but it is a compromise. Was looking hard at another one that seemed to be really good but lots of reviews said it wouldn’t hold up to high winds and ice which we seem to get a lot of so I scratched it off the list. I am getting back into the hobby after being away from it for 20 yrs. I have talked to ham operators in over 200 countries including the one everyone tries but few work in Nepal. He only gets on 1 maybe twice a year and I think is the only one in the country. I have worked every state here in the US. Anyway I had it narrowed down to 2 antenna’s. Could have had many but price was a factor being on a fixed income and the minister of finance involved well you know. Anyway after much reading, study, and talking with other ham’s that is how I came the decision I did. What is funny the 5 btv was the first antenna I looked at and pretty much felt was what I wanted but hey there might be something bigger and better. 😆

    #61362
    tukat44
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 8
    • Total Posts: 76

    Gentlemen, so aside from the technical advice given on this forum, TOOLS are at the top of my list of things I need to know about. As has been said only about a million times, Bergeon is expensive. Swiss are arrogant. Quality is questionable at best. Knowing that the Quality issue is put to rest helps me justify spending the extra British Pounds on a tool I know only I can lose but will give me good results with no surprises for years to come. Handling and working on the tiniest parts is the one issue that has prevented me from moving to the next level on so many things, and I have a good assortment of quality tools at hand- Chris, it is good to hear you laud the quality of the sets you have purchased, and while I still look for a good value by going to eBay and searching watchmakers tools, they are becoming harder to find and the prices have been climbing recently. Also, some are worn to the point of needing a rehab as they come to me, so that is wasted money for my purposes. Love these kinds of posts, as well as the Posting Photos Tutorial you generously took the time to post for us. Grateful- Tukat

    #61363
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    Bernie, I can see why you’ve tak en your time, it’s a rather complicated purchase… The only thing I can add is…..ya got yer ears on there good buddy 😆 or is that CB speak?

    Joe – saints preserve us, you said a mouthful buddy, TOOOOLS 😯 it really is amazing how much we spend on them, because we need em, plain and simple. You’re also absolutely right, the antique tools that you now see on the bay are, IMHO, the bottom of the barrel. I remember only a few years ago, type in watchmaker tools and you had about 150 pages of results to wade through, now, there are about 7 pages.

    This is also why I’ve kinda decided to just bite the bullet and go for new, I’m basically replacing my worn out stuff and consumables.

    It’s funny when I wrote the part about not wanting to spend the 200 clams on the broach sets, but I possibly spent more getting them piecemeal, with the extra shipping. It’s the wrong way of thinking now I look back, but I wanted to prevent knee jerk buying, a constant battle which I sometimes loose :?

    Anyhow gents, please feel free to add your best/worst items, with the intention of providing clear buying info to others, experience is valuable..

    #61364
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    @Chris Mabbott wrote:

    STONES– You know I love em, I collect them like gold, my eyes light up like a christmas tree whenver I see them, stones are cool.
    If you ever have the inclination to read the history of abrasives, going back waay before the Romans, and a very interesting footnote about the first white settlers in America and their search, then subsequent joy of finding a quarry with new types of abrasive material etc etc, I’m sure you’ll find it facinating, or am I just a stone geek 🙄

    I needed some very small, tiny in fact, stones to work on pallet pivots. My choice for this were the Degussit mini stones.. I know, cUUte :D

    The three stones I chose were the triangle, flat & square. The sizes are 1mm x 50mm for the square, 3mm x 50mm flat.
    I also picked up the mini square Arkansas stone which is 6 x 6 x 100mm

    These little stones, also from cousins, are very good and I’ve found no problem reducing pivot diameter or just touching up rough pivots.
    I would however recommend purchasing the mini stone holder as the small flat especially, can break.

    Guys:

    Gesswein has a fabulous selection of just about any kind of stones/abrasives out there.

    These look interesting (Pricey, but the holder is probably half of the cost):
    http://www.gesswein.com/p-10223-degussit-ruby-midget-file-assortment.aspx?cpagenum=&sortfield=&sortdirection=&perpage=

    Thanks Chris,
    Tom

    #61365
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    All:
    Here are some real tools – DP’s workshop…

    Geneva Lathes

    Levin Instrument Lathe

    Engraving Machines



    Mill and Drill Press

    9″ Lathe

    To be continued…

    #61366
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    Hey Tom, what is a DP’s workshop????? @tmac1956 wrote:

    DP’s workshop…

    Hey Paul, looks like yah got some work to do :D

    #61367
    gerene
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 16
    • Total Posts: 377

    Going by the number of lathes, I would guess David Pierce’s workshop :) I miss his advice and comments on this forum lately.

    I don’t know if it is my computer, but I can’t see the pictures completely :(

    Jan

    #61368
    arutha
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 85
    • Total Posts: 1536

    @willofiam wrote:

    Hey Tom, what is a DP’s workshop????? @tmac1956 wrote:

    DP’s workshop…

    Hey Paul, looks like yah got some work to do :D

    Mmmm…I was thinking maybe it would give Bob something to do? :)
    I will get on to it.

    So as the idea of this thread is “product review” will David be popping in to review these lathes Tom?

    Paul.

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