Watch Timing

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  • #49078
    arutha
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    • Topics Started: 85
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    Here is a question for you watch guys, how often do you have to make hairspring adjustments to bring the watch to time? It seems every watch I have done has needed some adjustment of the hairspring to bring it to time, usualy because its running too fast and before you ask, no the hairspring coils are not touching and the banking is fine ;) In general the watches always seem to be gaining between 3-6 minutes in 24 hours after servicing and I do like to have the regulator in the middle of its adjustment.
    Paul.

    #58025
    tmac1956
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    • Topics Started: 171
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    Arutha:

    I’ll answer your question when and if I get one back together that actualy runs. ;)

    Seriously, most of the ones that I’ve worked on are 17 jewels or less. But yes… I have to turn the collet to get it to keep time. Additionally, since I don;t have the electronics that I need, it’s a matter of time consuming winding/running/recording/positioning/adjusting… and on and on.

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #58026
    arutha
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    • Topics Started: 85
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    Hi Tom,
    turning the collet just gets it in beat doesn’t it?, do you have to shorten or lengthen the hairspring in the stud?
    Keep at it, the more you do the easier it gets, the biggest problem I had when doing wristwatches was knowing which screw went where. I soon learn’t my lesson and now keep the screws with the parts in the watch cleaning baskets. The other thing that always causes me problems are the levers and springs, I always manage to get something back wrong and have to do it again :(
    Paul.

    #58027
    tmac1956
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    • Topics Started: 171
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    Arutha:

    Yes. But with these cheapy regulators, I try to tweak them by adjusting the collet (increase/decreasing tension on the hairspring), as the regulators are so spastic that I can’t see any other way to finely adjust them except by moving the collet. I’m probably wasting my time though.

    Thanks,
    Tom

    #58028
    chris mabbott
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    • Topics Started: 119
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    Paul, Tom is correct, the isosyncronism of the balance is directly related to how accurately it maintains the time, as well as many other factors.

    Just to get it straight, you’ve poised the balance with the roller table in place? What I usually do is after I poise, not pose, that’s later ;) I then set the completed balance in the movement. Some set the roller jewel in the neutral position, I set it so that it is leaving the pallet exit stone, then as Tom suggests, I loosely position the cock, love that word, then adjust the hairspring, via the collet, to its mating position with the balance cock. All things being equal, it should be in good beat, which also effects the timing, to a certain extent.
    I’ve seen very slow balance iso on a watch and it has gained time, also the contrary, so yes, it does have an effect on time keeping. Also maybe your watch has a replacement HS? A weak mainspring and have you demagnetized it? Did you polish and closely inspect the pivots etc, test for end shake.. I’m just stating the obvious because sometimes the small things get forgotten.

    You should not have to adjust the hairspring stud as this should have been set to match the wheel, unless you suspect it has been replaced badly.. Also make sure the two little brass pins that the HS runs through are not too tight or loose, and that they are clean between the two pins.

    What are your watch specs Paul?

    #58029
    arutha
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    • Topics Started: 85
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    Thanks for the answers Tom and Chris :) Maybe I should stick to clocks! ;)
    The watch I have just finished is a Gents Greville 21 jewel pin pallet with centre seconds, very strange movement, the minute wheel is attached to the barrel and runs the canon pinion, the first time I put it together I couldn’t work out why the hands were not moving, took it back apart and realised the canon pinion is driven from the minute wheel which is attached to the barrel so after spending a good 20 minutes staring at it blankly, my subconscious gave me a clip around the ear and said look at the minute wheel and not the canon pinion. So looking at the minute wheel I could see it was just spinning, there was no friction so I gave the rivet that holds it on to the the barrel post a few hard prods with a rounded punch and got just the right amount of friction. All working lovely but just running a bit fast. I could see from the state of the watch that it had never been touched, all the screws were perfect, not a single mark anywhere and also just a single bend on the hairspring where it exits the stud, usualy a good indicator of it being messed with.
    It is not a movement of the highest quality but like Tom, I am just glad to have got it back together and have it running. These are not my pics but it is the same watch.

    Paul.

    #58030
    arutha
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    • Topics Started: 85
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    Oh, there wont be much balance poising on this one ;)

    Chris, just reading through your last thoughts again, the stuff you are asking, weak mainspring, dirty pivots etc, surely would cause the watch to run slow? It is all very clean, pegged out, polished, pithed, rodicod, carefuly oiled, not breathed on, prayed for etc…. :)

    #58031
    tmac1956
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    • Topics Started: 171
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    Arutha:

    Now that’s a fine watch. Much nicer than these old crappy movements that I’m working on. ;)

    Thanks,
    Tom

    #58032
    chris mabbott
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    • Topics Started: 119
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    Paul, yes, I read your post on my mobile and bad me, I kinda missed the fast part 😳

    Have you tried to move the regulator to the slow position to see if it does anything? Have you tested for magnetism?
    So what you’re saying, if I understand correctly, that the minute hand is attached to the MS barrel? Which leads me to ask… did you pull out the MS, apply oil/grease etc? How much room did the MS consume in the barrel?
    What were the symptoms, if any, of the watch when it arrived in your delicate hands ;)

    Kind of a cool looking watch though, a big difference from those big daddies you normally work on :D

    #58033
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
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    @Arutha wrote:

    Oh, there wont be much balance poising on this one ;)

    Chris, just reading through your last thoughts again, the stuff you are asking, weak mainspring, dirty pivots etc, surely would cause the watch to run slow? It is all very clean, pegged out, polished, pithed, rodicod, carefuly oiled, not breathed on, prayed for etc…. :)

    I have some old Latin prayers for these old puppies. I’ll be glad to share if needed. Additionally, there’s a patron saint of old crappy mechanical pocket watches. I think his name is St. Jude – the patron saint of lost causes. ;)

    Later,
    Tom

    #58034
    arutha
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 85
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    Tom, I could do with all the help I can get :) Dont be too hard on yourself, which you are doing if you are messing with cheap movements, they are great for learning about the parts and placement etc but trying to get the things running can be hard, especially in unjewelled movements where you could be looking at bushing to get them running well. I have bushed some of the cheap dollar watch type movements and yes it can be done but it is tricky, there is a lot to get wrong!

    Chris, when I say this is clean, it is clean, I have been fanatical about it as I wanted the best chance of success, yes the mainspring is gleaming and is lubricated with the best manspring nectar Moebius could provide and I am 99% sure it has its original mainspring(which was in very good condition forming a nice big “S” shape when it came out apart from a few inner coils. I have not tried adjusting the regulator yet but will do today to see how much difference it makes.
    Symptoms when I got the watch were it would run for about 4 seconds when I got it due to gunk, dirt and dried lubrication. This watch has been worn a lot in the past, most of the gold plate was missing from the case and as I said before does not look like it has ever been opened.
    Paul.

    #58035
    chris mabbott
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    • Topics Started: 119
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    How did you make out with the watch Paul? I’m just curious to hear what you found…

    #58036
    arutha
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 85
    • Total Posts: 1536

    So far Chris all I did was to move the regulator as far as it would go to the Retard side but it is still running much too fast, I will have to take another look at it.

    #58037
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    If that’s the case Paul, it sounds like a problem with the regulator pins. If no difference is noted then they are probably too far apart and will have to be gently squeezed inwards.

    I use one if those dental floss bows to clean between the pins. Dip the bow in some naphtha first.
    The pins must be perfectly parallel to each other and not bent.

    #58038
    david pierce
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 90
    • Total Posts: 1360

    Paul,
    Do you have a way to pull it out the watch and check the vibration? Also, are there any meridian adjustment screws on the balance wheel?
    david

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