Tour a Pivoter

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  • #48928
    bobpat
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    Bought a antique Tour a Pivoter ,that’s the name that’s on the wooden box it comes in, its in really good shape. Don’t have a clue how to use it. Anybody know of any instructions or videos I can get?.. I already have been to U_Tube, saw one but didn’t see much..Everything appears to be all there in its own wooden case.. Any info would be nice, THANKS. :?

    #56474
    arutha
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    • Topics Started: 85
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    Hi Bobpat,
    I have moved your question to the main forum as it will get answers here.
    If you could post a picture that would be great but I think you may have a jacot tool. These are used for polishing small pivots on pocket watches, watches and platform escapements. They take a bit of practice to get used to as they are driven by a bow with one hand and the other hand is holding a burnisher which you run back and forth over the pivot to polish it. In the box should be a pivot gauge which you use to measure the size of the pivot and then you can transfer this to the corresponding runner.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-qZklkLO2M This video will give you an idea of how it is used.
    Paul.

    #56475
    bobpat
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    Yeah. I watched that about 4 times.. Mine is different than that, although it looks identical mine doesn’t have that lower shaft on the bottom of the upper shaft. On mine the two shafts are identical, nothing looks like it suppose to turn with a bow, I will post a picture, when I figure out how to. its all brass and looks exactly like the one on u-tube. the one on u-tube has two shafts protruding through base on the left and one shaft protruding through on the right . MINE has just one shaft on left and one shaft on right.

    #56476
    chris mabbott
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    That sounds like it might be missing some parts Bob? Does it have two holes in the brass frame at one end, and a larger hole at the other end of the frame?

    I have this same named French/Swiss model jacot tool, and although there are a few variations, the design should be the same.

    I actually adiosed the bow, I mean, great, the olde timers used it before electricity, but for me it was too clumsy. I hook mine to a foot controlled small motor, low RPM. I use a simple elastic band for a drive belt, keep it loose so it can slip, works like a charm.

    These take a lot of practice, I screwed up three perfectly good pieces on my first attempts, that was with the bow. Since using the motor, Alle ist gut :)

    Post those pics buddy, lets have a look see at what you have..

    Chris

    #56477
    bobpat
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    I just sent a pic,, its missing nothing that I can see, all the preformed impressions in the box have something in it. there are no empty holes in the base either.. check out my pic

    #56478
    chris mabbott
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    Looks good Bob, just a different variation on the theme.. Let me use your pic to try and help explain.. I’ve numbered the areas on your pic for better reference..

    1. That is your carrier that is powered by a bow or motor & fits onto #2 the spindle. It should be a fairly loose fit to spin, but not slide around axially on the shaft. You’ll also notice the little wire that should have a small set screw to shorten or lengthen it, depending on the size of gear wheel.

    2. The main spindle, It should have a small hole in the end to except the pivot. The spindles are usually double ended and have a larger/smaller hole at the other end. These are adjustable in/out and are locked by the thumb screw at the top.

    3 & 4 These brass covers/guards should cover & protect the fragile lanterns #5 just covering them so that 2mm hangs over the edge.

    5. Lanterns for shortening pivots. If you make a new staff, you set it up in the tool and a certain amount, the amount you need to remove, is projected through the lantern, you can then file it down to the correct length. Be careful because these lanterns can break easily with too much force.

    6. Is the pivot gauge that Paul mentioned, but again, use caution with this type because they can actually cut/break or score the pivot. I use a caliper rather than this or a jeweled pivot gauge.

    Hope this helps :)

    #56479
    bobpat
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    Chris, Thank you so much for explaining that to me. I can see exactly how it works now,thanks to your explanation. I picked this up on ebay, didn’t pay a whole lot for it. these old watch and clock tools fascinate me. .. I haven’t really ventured into watches but I have a feeling I’m headed there. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain all this too me. THANK YOU Chris

    #56480
    chris mabbott
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    You’re welcome, If I have some time later I’ll try to post a photo of a typical setup for this tool. I know when I was trying to find some, ANY info, there wasn’t much, it was like a closely guarded secret 😆

    Another thing I should mention, is that IF you are simply re-polishing already burnished pivots, i.e. you are repairing a watch and wish to clean up dirty pivots, You DO NOT want much pivot sticking up over the V slot, your goal is to merely smooth it and polish.
    With this in mind, what I do is to simply eyeball it once mounted & not use the gauge, I only want about 1% of the pivot surface showing over the V as so not to alter the dimensions. This is my method only, not the official one.

    This can also be accomplished by trying different V slots and then placing your flat burnisher across the channel while gently moving it back and forth, you want slight rotation of the mounted staff.

    Throw away the bow, until you’re really comfortable and proficient with two hands. After, you can make like the old timers with bow and oil lamp 😆

    #56481
    bobpat
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    I look forward to seeing that photo,. I may not even try the bow method, may use a motor. I like your idea..Again. THANKS for ALL the info

    #56482
    arutha
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    Can I just add that getting used to a motor run by a foot pedal also takes a bit of getting used to. In fact I had such a problem with it (my bad back causes all sorts of issues with my legs) I wired in a light dimmer switch to control the speed of my lathe rather than using a pedal. I take it Chris you are not a big fan of the bow? ;) They are the same as any new tool and take time to get used to but bobpat, instead of spending more money on getting motorized why not try the bow, if you dont like it then you can still get your motor. The Jacot tool is the only thing I use a bow for and I like the extra feel you get with it.
    just chucking in another two cents :)
    Paul.

    #56483
    bobpat
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    oh yeah, I always listen and try new ideas and see what works best for me,. We will see. I was just happy that Chris should be how it worked.

    #56484
    chris mabbott
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    It does Paul, you’re absolutely correct, and at first my foot used to auto increase the RPM 😮 I put a piece of flexi rubber between the pedal and the base, I had to mess around cutting it to get the slow RPM but once I had it measured, I just slip it in when I do pivot work. I also use this same motor for my Lorch lathe and I have it mounted on a nice mini vice for quick changing between the two.

    I do like the bow and the hand crank, I really admire the guys that can use one hand to perform micro technical work and still have the coordination to keep it all together. Unfortunately, I’m not that guy 😆 I can walk, chew gum and smoke though, but one handed lathe work, forget me 😳

    It’s like my ex-father in law, he restored antique cars for clients. Most of the models that had hand cranked engines, he converted to electric start on request 😆

    #56485
    arutha
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    • Topics Started: 85
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    I have a problem where if I hold my foot in one position for too long my leg starts shaking, not great for keeping a nice edge on you graver or tool bit :(
    Its great we can overcome these difficulties and no matter how bad it gets I just think back to the video Bob posted of the guy doing watch repair with his feet, that gives me the kick up the butt I need to stop me feeling sorry for myself :)

    #56486
    tmac1956
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    • Topics Started: 171
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    All:

    I found my setup on a DVD (AWC?) consisting of fastening a small piece of elastic to the back of your bench, tying several feet of monofilament fishing line to that and attaching a weight (a few ounces seem to work for me) to the end that will hang over your side of the bench. When you pull the weight down and release, the elastic pulls it back to its starting position. If you ever find the line slipping on the pulley, you can add a touch of bees wax to the line to “tacky” it up. However, I’ve never had that happen to me.

    Just a thought…

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #56487
    daryn
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 2
    • Total Posts: 97

    Watcha
    The use of a bow causes the work to rotate in one direction and then back in the other direction,when turning you only apply your graver on the downstroke,however with burnishing as in the jacot tool the burnisher is applied to the pivot in both directions,forward on the downstroke and backward in the upstroke, this action stops the pivot from becoming scored as can happen if you’re only applying the burnisher in one direction, it takes getting used too but I don’t feel the bow should be classed as “old hat ” I very rarely use it for turning but very often for burnishing, sometimes I use the turns for a small delicate job between centres and this is always with the bow . . .
    Warm regards’
    Daryn

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