Time adjustment

[sunny_birds]

Tom should read Bob

[sunny_birds]

Hi Bernie
The sites you sent me have been very helpful, it has cleared up a lot of my questions.
Thanks
Robin

[Bob Tascione]

Hi Robin,
Ask away! You’re actually asking good and important questions.

So are you saying Tom (I’ll answer to Tom no prob. ) that I should be able to slow it down some more before it stops?

No not really saying that, although that’s possible.
What I’m saying is that without proper amplitude any adjustments made to the balance assembly would just be treating the symptom and not the disease.

Good amplitude equates to high angular momentum at the moment of unlocking which aids in overcoming any torque fluctuation due to slight machining imperfections, scattered dirt particles, shock, mainspring slippage and other pesky demons that can wreak havoc on performance. It’s akin to the moment of inertia of a spinning flywheel countering disruptive torque forces in machinery. When a balance has high amplitude it’s recovery time will be quicker than if at say half it’s amplitude and it’s chance of unlocking failure after encountering any of the above will be less and, it’s timekeeping performance will be better.

Because you said earlier that your balance assembly ran for over 4 minutes it doesn’t look like the floating balance is the problem, but…I could be wrong. Although the problem could lie in the positioning and interaction between the assembly and the clock mech. my feeling (and I think Bernies and Williams as well) is that the clock mechanism should be put into perfect working order before digging further into the balance assembly.

By turning the upper collet you were changing the beat. The pdfs that Bernie posted should show how to regulate the rate but if not then let us know.

Good luck and keep at it Robin.
Bob

[sunny_birds]

Hi Bob
Have just noticed, the guard pin, bent part of fork. Hits the end of the safety roller. When it kicks clockwise looking from the top. So only can rotate about 90 degrees in that direction. The info Berni sent me says it should not contact the safety roller in normal motion. If so should it run on the inside or outside of the safety roller?
Robin

[sunny_birds]

Should have mentioned I understand what you mean about rotational momentum. At present you can hear it hit the safety roller.
Robin

[bernie weishapl]

Robin as Bob said ask away. I have been working on these clocks or all clocks now for over 30 yrs. My first question is how did you clean the floating balance? I hope it was not in a ultrasonic and if by hand that will not do. I clean mine with a product called One Dip. It cleans all the oil and grime off it and dries instantly. I put it in a glass jar and use in a well ventilated area. I never mess with the floating balance until I am positive the movement is tip top shape. I also make sure the floating balance is cleaned extremely well.

Next thing I would do is while you have the movement together let the mainspring totally down. Then with your finger move the mainspring barrel back and forth. You may have to give it a good push back and forth. As you do this watch each pivot in the time train especially in the upper train. If there is any movement back and forth on any of the pivots you are losing power and especially if it is on the upper train therefore could be the problem with your clock stopping. If there is movement your hole is not round and can bind on the pivots. I remember doing one of those Kienzle about a year ago. If I remember correctly it took 7 bushings. The 3 wheels below the fork needed bushing on the back plate and two of those wheels needed bushing on the front plate plus the wheel after the mainspring needed both bushing front and back plate. It also required a couple of bushing on both the strike and chime train. You can move the mainspring barrel back and forth on each train to find which wheels need bushings. Anyway when I finished with the bushings, cleaned, pegged the holes and polishing the pivots I assembled the movement and oiled. I use Etsyntha 859 oil on my clocks and I oil my mainsprings with Slick 50 mixed 50/50 with Mobil One Synthetic oil. Once assembled I then wind the clock on the test stand and just let it run for 24 hrs. I have found over the years it takes about 24 hrs of running to make sure the pivots are oiled well with their rotation. When I went to the shop the next day It was running strong with about 185 deg rotation each way. Set the time with my microset timer to 9000 bph, put in the case and returned to the customer. Over a year now and she told me at church it is still running good. So that will give you some idea how I go about it. Polished pivots and bushings are “extremely” important in these types of clocks. In my experience with the fork removed that escape wheel should move with one click of the mainspring and it will if done properly. If it takes say 3 or 4 clicks to take off then you have problems. Hopefully this will give you some ideas and food for thought.

[sunny_birds]

Hi Bernie
Sorry somehow I missed your last post.
I did not clean the balance wheel set up, as it seemed fine. As I was only replacing a broken drive Spring.
I did altrasonic clean the rest of the movement, but didn’t realise how important it was to polish the pivots.
It runs well now almost impossible to stop it. BUT it still runs fast about 1 minute every 8 hours.
There is very little movement in any of the pivot points, so I’m fairly sure it doesn’t need bushing.
I am only getting about 200 or so degrees total rotation. So it looks like I will have to do as you have suggested and double check all the pivot points on the main drive train. ie clean and polish them.
Thanks again for all your advice, it really has been very helpful.
Robin

[sunny_birds]

Hi Bob and Bernie,
Just noticed the last couple of posts, from me and Bernie are only visible, if I try to post something else.
Am I doing something wrong when I’m answering you.
Robin

[sunny_birds]

Ok only just seen page 2

[sunny_birds]

Hi again have managed to slow clock to 5 mins a day fast, without adding weights.Adding weights to outer ring has caused it to go slow.
(Used blue tack for trial)
Question are there special pliers to remove or add weights to balance wheel?
And if necessary where can I buy weights?
Robin

[Anonymous]

Hello Robin,
I think I understand now what you are asking in the PARTS AND TOOL SUPPLIERS forum. I have removed weight from Floating Balance wheels which you refer to as escapement wheel by placing the wheel on a hollow stump on my staking set and tapping the weight out with a punch. I have not needed to add weight so I never found the need to locate weights for these balance wheels,,,,if they are even available. You might not be asking about these weights though since you asked about pliers to remove them??? Am I missing something? It might be a good idea to go back to the other forum and give a more details since it was very very confusing. I thought you were asking about balance rim screws for a watch or platform escapement.

Best, Phil

[sunny_birds]

Hi PHIL
Yes you were correct in what you thought I ment. Sorry I called it the wrong name.
I am new to this, but should have got the name right.
Floating balance in a clock was what I was talking about.
I thought there might be special pliers with a pin on one side and recess on the other to just press the weights out, without damaging the actual wheel.
I need to slow this down so would need to remove weights from centre and add them the o the outside rim.
Robin

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