Time adjustment

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  • #49912
    sunny_birds
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    Have a Kienzle carriage clock with 563a/011 mechanism. The clock is running fast, have tried adjusting the small leaver on the top,but this changes the tick, and doesn’t seem to affect the number of beats/min. There is what appears to be a balancing disc on to of the escapement wheel. But again the seems to have no effect on time.
    Can anyone help with this type of escapement?
    Robin

    #64341
    sunny_birds
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 5
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    Have a Kienzle carriage clock with 563a/011 mechanism. The clock is running fast, have tried adjusting the small leaver on the top,but this changes the tick, and doesn’t seem to affect the number of beats/min. There is what appears to be a balancing disc on to of the escapement wheel. But again the seems to have no effect on time.
    Can anyone help with this type of escapement?
    Robin[/quote]
    Just adding, have found out the disc on top of the escapement wheel should speed up or slow down the clock.
    Have tried the two extremes, with hardly any difference. The clock still gains about about 6 minutes a hour.
    Robin

    #64342
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    Just noticed your question, been really busy here…..This is a tough question to answer with limited information. To help answer your question I have to ask some questions myself. Have you taken the movement apart cleaned, bushed if needed? inspected the floating balance assembly for any wear, rust, over oiling, cracked jewels if it has them? How much oscillation do you have? meaning how far in rotation does the silver disk spin in each direction.? should be somewhere around 360 degrees total. These have to have full oscillation in order to be able to regulate. some of them you can add weight to slow them down but that is only if every other issue is addressed. William

    #64343
    sunny_birds
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 5
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    Hi William
    Have not taken any of the escapement apart, only replaced the hour spring, and general clean and oil.
    Silver wheel only oscillates less than 90 degrees. When giving a good tick.
    By adjusting the spring at the top can get up to about 150 degrees before it stops ticking.
    Robin

    #64344
    sunny_birds
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 5
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    Have played around with adjustments at each end of the Spring, and managed to get about 300 degrees, but tick does not sound even.
    Robin

    #64345
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    Hi Robin, I see that you have referred to this clock movement in the other post and the guys have given great advice. When you say @sunny_birds wrote:

    general clean and oil

    what does that mean?

    Remember, low amplitude can be caused by wear, old oils, bent pivots, dirty gooy gunk, set or sticky mainsprings ect… ect…until these things are taken care of there isnt much else that you can do that would help out the clock movement to properly function. @sunny_birds wrote:

    By adjusting the spring at the top can get up to about 150 degrees

    How are you making this adjustment, it doesnt seem right to me. Have a nice day, William

    #64346
    sunny_birds
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 5
    • Total Posts: 30

    Hi William,
    By rotating the small spring loaded wheel on top of the escapement wheel, seemed to make little difference.
    I ended up by Turing the small leaver right at the top of the suspension Spring anti clockwise, when looking from the top.
    This has allowed me to get just about 360 degrees rotation, but the clock is still gaining about 1/2 hour, every 16 hours.
    My cleaning involved stripping everything except the escapement down and given an altrasonic clean.
    Robin

    #64347
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    Robin, to get good amplitude there is not a adjustment that you would do to the suspension spring. Do a search on this forum or a google search on floating balances, there is alot of good information out there. ALSO, try a test, take the floating balance out of the movement, mount it in a vise and turn it almost 360 degrees, let it go, should run for 2-3 minutes. Also, with the power down on the mainsprings, remove the lever from the movement, give the time mainspring a couple of clicks, see if the time train moves freely. A picture of your movement would be helpful.

    #64348
    sunny_birds
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 5
    • Total Posts: 30

    Ok will do as you suggested.
    Still working on how to get pictures small enough to post.
    Robin

    #64349
    sunny_birds
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 5
    • Total Posts: 30

    Hi again,
    Escapement runs just over 4 minutes out of clock.
    Hard to check train as I’ll have to split case to remove leaver, but seem to turn quite easily at two to three clicks of Spring ratchet. As I move the leaver by hand.
    Tried to send picture of clock but seems to not be in preview.
    Robin

    #64350
    bernie weishapl
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 58
    • Total Posts: 1218

    When you said you stripped everything but the escapement down does that mean you separated the plates and removed all wheels? That movement is pretty finicky and needs to be cleaned well. That mean taking all wheels out and polishing the pivots. After cleaning the holes in the plates need to be pegged out to make sure all is clean. The pinions on the wheels need to be checked to make sure they are clean. A new spring is a start. Also post a picture of your floating balance. There are two types and I am thinking that the one you have is a older floating balance. Here is some info you should study if yours is a older balance.

    http://www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/Murray-hermle.pdf

    http://www.davesclocks.net/uploads/5/8/9/1/5891949/hermle_floating_bal_summary.pdf

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lyY2IJ46xE

    #64351
    sunny_birds
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 5
    • Total Posts: 30

    Yes had to split plates to get to spring, did not polish pivots though.
    I’m not at home at the moment will post escarpment later.
    Robin

    #64352
    sunny_birds
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 5
    • Total Posts: 30

    If pivots etc were dirty. Wouldn’t clock run slow or stop. It is very hard to actually stop the escarpment from re starting on its own.
    Robin

    #64353
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1559

    If pivots etc were dirty wouldn’t clock run slow or stop?

    Not necessarily but your amplitude would drop off prior to stoppage…as your clock is doing. Gotta be super clean, hole clearance correct and smooth running pivots in holes. I definitely agree with both William and Bernie that making any escapement adjustments before being absolutely sure that the movement is in good working order and delivering the full power that the engineering gods designed the movement to have will most likely cause you more problems in the long run.

    Bob

    #64354
    sunny_birds
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 5
    • Total Posts: 30

    Thanks Bernie, Bob and William,
    Are you telling me I’ve got to pull it all apart again. !!! Oh no.
    So are you saying Tom that I should be able to slow it down some more before it stops?
    Which adjustment should I use to obtain this?
    Should I not touch the brass leaver at the top of the escapement Spring?
    Sorry sounds like lots of questions, I’m new to this but have an engineering background.
    Will wait your reply before pulling it all apart again. I think I’m on a steep learning curve.
    Robin


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sunny_birdsTime adjustment