- This topic is empty.
-
Something I would like to ask about hide glue being attacked by bacteria, most of the old English clocks if not all were held together with hide or animal glues. Veneers were also fixed with animal glues. How come all our clocks have not fallen apart? Is it to do with climate or are some animal glues better than others?
Chris,
this whole glue issue raises some interesting thoughts! if it were me restoring a valuable clock I would use an animal glue as the idea is to keep things as original as possible, this also gives future restorers/repairers the chance of re-fixing something. If you stick it with something more permanent which a lot of people do and a repair needs to be made in the future, the poor repair guy is going to have a hell of a job getting these joints apart.
Looking at it from another perspective we could say, well that clock is not that valuable so I can stick it with anything I like but then who’s to say it won’t be valuable in the future. You love it enough now to want to restore it and because you are going to put it back together it will be around for much longer than the clock belonging to average Joe as he don’t want to invest time or money doing it so it ends up as parts or in the trash.
There was a big argument on the NAWCC forum a while back about gluing slate clock cases together. Orginally they were fixed together with plaster of paris and wires, guys were saying they liked to use araldite, gorilla glue etc as it was more secure, trouble is you will never get these joints apart without further damage to the case. Why would you want to get the case apart? Put in a donor panel if one of yours gets badly chipped, yes there are repair methods for chips but none are invisible.
I think we should do what we can to keep things original, not just for the value of the clock but for the future generation of clockmakers. I already curse the “punch up pivot hole” clockmakers of yesteryear, I dont want the future clockmakers(if there are any
) to be cursing me for sticking cases together with glue that can’t be undone.
What do you think?Good points Paul, yet what are the most repairs that are done on a old clock case? in my experience it is re-gluing a joint because it has come loose. I have to ask the question….. is that because of a original glue that comes loose in humidity? or heat? ect…Is it possible that a clock being glued together with a better type of glue 150 years from now would still be together as if it were built yesterday?
O.K. there is the case of the falling off the wall clock and a doors joints become loose, same reason? maybe…maybe not. If the rail or style has busted in half then you have to make a new one and there are ways to use the saw and re-cut the remaining joints so type of glue has little issue.
@Arutha wrote:gives future restorers/repairers the chance of re-fixing something
of course Paul I will jab at yah a bit…..if it was done right the first time then……..
whether the clock is valuable or not…with pride in craftsmanship a refurbished clock case will have NO sign (or at least very little) that it has been fixed and unless there is some sort of test done, NOBODY will know what kind of glue was used.
to what you said about “punched pivot holes” I have seen clock cases fixed that have slobbers of glue run out the joint and dried, pieces that were 1/8 of and inch apart or askew, foamed up gorilla glue that was left. the list goes on and on. If anything that kind of craftsmanship reduces value, just like punching holes….I dont think the comparison of punched holes to type of glue can be made. @Arutha wrote:
to be cursing me for sticking cases together with glue that can’t be undone
could also be foul language for having to reglue the joints again……
WilliamPaul, yes you’re right, this has been tossed around, argued about & debated over many times. I’ve also heard the same thing said on the militaria forums when it comes to cleaning patina..YAWN
Personally, and it really is a personal decision. I try to keep things original, to an extent. I’ll replace a rubbed in jewel with an equal style rubbed in jewel, whenever humanly possible. But I think the main point is to have a functional item rather than an original broken piece that may end up as parts or scrap. But there is also doing any job the right way, or the wrong way as in your punch guy.
I think that you can make a perfectly good, modern repair and do it correctly. Like everything we do is a modern repair, we don’t use antique brass to make bushings, I didn’t use antique brass to make my jewel setting, I used modern stuff but turned it like an original. It looks good and more importantly is works.My clock, for example, was apparently sitting in an attic for the past 50 yrs. IF I hadn’t been interested in restoring it and had purchased this to use, AND it arrived as it did, the options would be…
1. return it. The seller would probably toss it, value = zero
2. Claim the insurance and try to get someone to repair it, which would be in the region of 500 euros + which personally I wouldn’t pay.
so value again = zero because I would probably just dump it.
3. either I or the original seller would sell it for parts, which would gain some value, but the clock as an individual object would be gone. So again, value = zeroMy outlook is what I can do with it TODAY, with what makes me happy right now, which is to restore and make functional and beautiful that which is scrap, hopefully to retain the originality of the piece mechanically and as esthetically as possible without sacrificing functionality.
If, for example, I cannot find an original blue steel mainspring that was the original equipment of a watch, should I not use a new alloy type in order that it shall run? The same could be said for replacing a balance staff that we make ourselves, it isn’t an original factory replacement. It’s homemade using modern steel. That’s how far this originality issue fever can get carried away.
Point is that this whole thing can become taxing because people get swept away by false nostalgia which is emotional and unrealistic. Oh you shouldn’t polish it, all those years of history in the patina! But I love shiny, that’s what I do
Unfortunately most buy into that emotional pitfall.To me glue is glue, the only thing I want is for it to hold and do its job. Do I really care that in 80 yrs from now someone might have a hard time pulling it apart and go on a forum to curse the unknown A-hole that used THEN modern glue which is now 80 yrs old….. NO 😆
I care about getting the thing to run, enjoying doing the restoration in a professional way, so that it doesn’t look like a kid did it, and sitting back with a beer and a cig to listen to the chime/tick. Obviously showing you guys the result
If I had listened to everyone on the NAWCC that told me not to do this or that or that I was an evil person for doing this… None of the watches that I’d saved from obscurity, the parts man, or just the garbage bin, would not now be enjoying being wound, being carried and shown to interested people, being polished and generally admired by yours truly…
So to answer the question, if a job is done right and well, the materials used are irrelevant.. but that’s just how I feel, works for me but not for everyone, but I’ve never really looked for confirmation, just information, one has to make ones own choice and be happy with it… You can’t please everyone so just please yourself 😆
Yeah Paul, we’re comin to get ya 😈
Of course you didn’t upset moi, not at all
It was a good open question that provoked some good responses, which is what its all about. Love it.But that’s the nice thing about this forum & the people contained within, I think we all do our own thing, the best way we can, and no one really judges our way/style/results. Everyone is supportive here, which again, is how it should be. Help and advice is freely offered and no offense is taken if someone finds their own way.
Kinda reminds me of when a bunch of us used to get together in someones garage or basement to work on some project, there was always differences of opinion but in the end it always turned out, and a good time was had by all, of course with cases of Molson Canadian strewn around the next day 😆
The only problem I see here is that the beer is missing
and the Tunes I’m a link
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.