Re-pivot tiny pivot HHEELLPP!!

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  • #48483
    digitaltripper
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    • Topics Started: 17
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    Ok so my first pivoting job went so well that I thought I’d break a smaller verge to see if I could re-pivot it….Ok I broke it on a accident and now I need to re-pivot it.

    So I am trying to put a #80 drill hole in my 3/16″ thick steel flag that I made. This flag worked like a charm re-pivoting an arbor that was .060 with a pivot diameter of .030, I thought I was the pivot master…until now…Dangit…

    I can not complete the re-pivot until I figure out how to create a tiny hole in my drill flag…

    How do I get this teeny tiny hole in this drill flag?

    Six broken #80 drills are plenty for me…If there is an “up side”, the broken drills may make nice pivot material now…

    Or should I make a flag from a different material?

    Or should I take up pottery instead of clock and watch repair?

    Just in case some of you may have parts just laying about that you could part with, OR if you know where I could obtain a NEW part, here is a picture of the verge: And here is a closeup of the verge: PLEASE, if you have a tip, or trick, or another way to pivot something this tiny please let me know…

    Thank you

    Jim B

    #52857
    david pierce
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    • Topics Started: 90
    • Total Posts: 1360

    Digital Tripper,
    A number #80 drill bit is extremely tiny. At .03125 diameter it is about the thickness of a guitar string. Usually drills this small are drilled with a machine called a sensative drill press with an Albrecht keyless chuck. The slightest wobble in the bit will equal a large percentage of the drill bit diameter. If you are drilling through steel this can be devistating. If you do not have the proper drilling equipment try drilling through a softer material such as brass. Make sure that the drilling operation is done with an extremely light touch and do not try drill too deeply with each peck. Although brass can in theory be drilled dry, a lubricant (oil) will be helpful.
    david

    #52858
    digitaltripper
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    • Topics Started: 17
    • Total Posts: 102

    @david pierce wrote:

    Digital Tripper,
    A number #80 drill bit is extremely tiny. At .03125 diameter it is about the thickness of a guitar string. Usually drills this small are drilled with a machine called a sensative drill press with an Albrecht keyless chuck. The slightest wobble in the bit will equal a large percentage of the drill bit diameter. If you are drilling through steel this can be devistating. If you do not have the proper drilling equipment try drilling through a softer material such as brass. Make sure that the drilling operation is done with an extremely light touch and do not try drill too deeply with each peck. Although brass can in theory be drilled dry, a lubricant (oil) will be helpful.
    david

    Thank you David,
    The best I have is a dremel with keyless chuck in an old dremel drill press stand. I tried 1/8in thick Brass and broke a bit. I guess I am too heavy handed…I’ll try again with way lighter taps to the press arm and oil and maybe I can attach the dremel to my lathe foot pedal and get it to go a bit slower. I had the dremel set on 1 (goes 1 thru 5 speed on tool) and it seemed to fast for such a tiny bit. I also tried the Harbor Freight tungsten carbide drill/rasps set and broke three of those…Dangit

    This small stuff is a lot harder to do it seems..

    Jim

    #52859
    mahlon
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 28
    • Total Posts: 215

    digitaltripper,
    I am as new at this stuff as you are. If you are going to make a brass flag, why could’nt you drill your hole large enough to except a bushing, that would fit your #80 bit.
    Mahlon

    #52860
    david pierce
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    • Topics Started: 90
    • Total Posts: 1360

    Jim,
    Yes, small holes are a major problem. Look at it from this perspctive, if you put a 1/4 inch drill bit into a chuck and bent the tip of the drill 1/8 inches from the chuck then proceeded to drill, it would probably break the drill bit. With a #80 drill bit, .006 inches (about the width of a hair) would have the same effect. The equipment you are using is not particularily suited for this task.
    If you have a collet chuck that can hold the #80 bit, take one of the broken ends and secure it in the collet so only a small amount of the drill tip sticks out from the collet. If it will turn true, this will stiffen the drill bit. Next, hook up a router speed control to your Dremel and slow it way down (for steel). Try and drill the hole with the shorter bit end and let me know what happens. Don’t forget to use oil. Also, make sure the tool is not running in reverse.
    david

    #52861
    david pierce
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    • Topics Started: 90
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    Digital Tripper,
    I will experment drilling some #80 holes but I will not be able to work on the problem until this weekend.
    david

    #52862
    vanhooglesnort
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 10
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    Am I the only one who thinks it would be easier to just turn a whole new arbor? Keeping original parts is always the goasl, but if you can’t replace the pivot just make a new arbor with the pivots turned on the ends.

    Just my $.02…

    #52863
    david pierce
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    • Topics Started: 90
    • Total Posts: 1360

    Digital Tripper,
    I sucessfully drilled two #80 holes 1/4 inch deep into a piece of cold rolled bar stock. That is the good news. The bad news is I drilled the holes with a Dumore Sensative Drill Press with an Albrecht 15-J0 keyless drill chuck. This weekend I will have a little more time and will try and find a less expensive solution for you.
    david

    #52864
    david pierce
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    • Topics Started: 90
    • Total Posts: 1360

    Van,
    You are certainly correct and that is a great thought, expecially from a professional perspective where time determines almost everything. I guess the difference is, this is a school and different approaches and ideas should be explored, practiced on and perfected before hanging up a shingle. There may come a time later down the road where this is the only acceptable solution to a repair challenge and now is the time to learn it.
    david

    #52865
    digitaltripper
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 17
    • Total Posts: 102

    @mahlon wrote:

    digitaltripper,
    I am as new at this stuff as you are. If you are going to make a brass flag, why could’nt you drill your hole large enough to except a bushing, that would fit your #80 bit.
    Mahlon

    Hey thank you mahlon, I just may do this!! Wow so simple…I love it. Unless David has a way for me to make the hole…

    #52866
    digitaltripper
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 17
    • Total Posts: 102

    @vanhooglesnort wrote:

    Am I the only one who thinks it would be easier to just turn a whole new arbor? Keeping original parts is always the goasl, but if you can’t replace the pivot just make a new arbor with the pivots turned on the ends.

    Just my $.02…

    And I really like your idea as well. Thank you…However, the reason I have not done this, is it is a tiny verge that I want to re-pivot. I am practiced on cutting aluminum and brass on my lathe but hardened steel? Have not done that yet. Not to mention that if you look at the photos above, you’ll see that it is tapered with the verge cut as part of the arbor etc….I think I could do it but I have not yet learned to anneal steel and re-temper it etc…. Also this would be a part that I’d want to turn on centers and I do not have a live center for my tail stock…

    Anyway….Enough with the excuses. Just figured it’d be easier to re-pivot….

    Actually it would be easier if I could just purchase this part…Anyone here live in Germany? Or near it? Or have a supply house that carries this verge?

    Thank you EVERYONE !!!

    Jim

    #52867
    digitaltripper
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 17
    • Total Posts: 102

    @david pierce wrote:

    Digital Tripper,
    I sucessfully drilled two #80 holes 1/4 inch deep into a piece of cold rolled bar stock. That is the good news. The bad news is I drilled the holes with a Dumore Sensative Drill Press with an Albrecht 15-J0 keyless drill chuck. This weekend I will have a little more time and will try and find a less expensive solution for you.
    david

    Ok I got it…I ship you my drill flag and you can put the #80 hole in it….Hey while your at it, you could do #79,#78,#77….Just kidding…I really appreciate your help thus far David!! I like Malon’s idea of creating a bushing (Brass tube, or perhaps a real bushing !!) and drilling the flag for that….Geez so simple…What do you think?

    #52868
    david pierce
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    • Topics Started: 90
    • Total Posts: 1360

    Digital Tripper,
    Drilling a #80 hole through HARDENED steel is not going to work. I didn’t realize that from the initial statement. That would be a task for an industrial Laser. There are several ways to anneal the part to soften it a bit. One way would be to put it in a toaster oven starting with a high heat and backing the temperature down over several hours. Anything that will get the part hot and cool it slowly should work.
    The bushing approach and any other approach is great as long as it gets the job done. Working within your available tools and skills is what it is all about. Look at Willofiam’s ingenious solution to mount his microscope to the lathe. Another mounting solution might look prettier but it won’t work any better.
    david

    #52869
    mahlon
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 28
    • Total Posts: 215

    Hope it work for you. You no what they say, even a blind squirl finds a nut once in awhile :D

    #52870
    david pierce
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 90
    • Total Posts: 1360

    Digital Tripper,
    If I am to finally understand what you need to do, I think you are trying to make a drilling jig for a #80 drill so you can place the jig over one end of a broken staff, and drill a hole into the center of the staff for a new pivot. First, you need to have the proper piece of steel to do this. You can purchase a 1/16″ x 1″ x 18″ piece of O1 ground flat stock from and industrial supply house (MSC, McMaster Carr etc.) for about $12.00. This comes in a soft, machinable state and can be hardened by you after the machining is completed. Second, you need to have the machinery in order to do this. Third, the odds of putting a hole dead center into the end of a staff are about zero. What I would recommend instead would be to take a short piece of drill rod that is slightly larger in diameter than the staff and sink a short hole into the end that is about 2/3 the diameter of the staff. Next, turn the end of the staff to the diameter and length of the hole for a good fit. Test your fit and readjust your turned end piece for a perfect fit. The bottom of your new part should line up perfectly on the shoulder of the turned staff. Once your fit has been achieved, harden and temper your part to the correct pivot hardness. Next put a small amount of LOCTITE on the turned staff and press the two parts together. Allow the LOCTITE time to cure as per directions. You can not turn the new part down to the outside diameter of the staff and turn a new pivot.
    david

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digitaltripperRe-pivot tiny pivot HHEELLPP!!