Lathe motors…

[tmac1956]

@david pierce wrote:

Tmac,
Reversing the lathe direction is usually used in conjunction with cutting threads. You may want to cut an internal thread and have the boring threading tool thread on the way out of the part instead of in to the part. Another application might be to cut a metric thread with an inch pitched lead screw. Since there is no particular mathematical correlation between the inch based lead screw and the metric thread the carriage will have to be threaded back on each cut. The reverse feature can also be used to back out taps. This is engine lathe work and does not apply well to watchmaker lathes. I know, I know, some watchmaker lathes (Levin, Boley) have back gear sets that hook a drive shaft to the crosslide but in my view the setup is at best Mickey Mouse. That is the major reason you don’t see a lot of backgear sets for sale for these lathes. It is more of a novility than a useful tool. Harbor Freight, Grizly and other companies sell engine lathes with back gears that are set up for this kind of work.
This brings us to what direction do you want your motor to turn? This depends upon how you mount the motor. If you are looking at the back of the lathe you will see the lathe turning clockwise. Your motor must turn in a direction that makes the lathe do this. Most people would want the motor mounted on a bench or a board along side the lathe. In that case the lathe and the motor would turn in a clockwise direction when looking at the back of the lahe. Sherline, I believe, flip the motor around so it hangs out on the outside of the lathe. In that case the motor would have to turn counterclockwise for the lathe to turn clockwise when looking at the back of the lathe.
These motors can also be wired for 220 volts. Make sure that you wire it for 110 volts or you will fry the capicator. No, you do not need a toggle switch.

david:

How do the motors at Enco stack up against the SINCERE/MERLIN motors? Here’s a 1/4 hp that I’ve been looking at (single phase/split phase)…

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=619-3987

Thanks…
tmac

[david pierce]

Tmac,
The motor is a good one and is about the same size (NEMA 48) as the Sincere motor. The Sincere motor that I purchased came with two step pulleys, the motor capacitor and a foot switch for about $200.00 including shipping. By the time you add the pulleys and the foot switch the price will be the same. Also, the Enco motor will also have a shipping charge. This means that in the end, the prices will be about the same. I would go with the Sincere motor; in fact, come to think of it, I did.
david

[tmac1956]

@david pierce wrote:

Tmac,
The motor is a good one and is about the same size (NEMA 48) as the Sincere motor. The Sincere motor that I purchased came with two step pulleys, the motor capacitor and a foot switch for about $200.00 including shipping. By the time you add the pulleys and the foot switch the price will be the same. Also, the Enco motor will also have a shipping charge. This means that in the end, the prices will be about the same. I would go with the Sincere motor; in fact, come to think of it, I did.
david

david:
Yea… I think I’ll just stop looking and order the Sincere. What I’m really waiting on is gettimg a shop table built. I should have it in a few weeks, so I won’t have anymore excuses. So once I get my Levin setup…

So, If I wanted try to build my own pocket watch cases, I would probably need something like the Taig.. correct?

Thanks!
tmac

[achipo]

Great thread! My lathe came with a Hamilton Beach motor (I assume 3450 RPM, but it seems faster?) about 1/16 HP. It doesn’t have a speed control, and rather than go the foot rheostat approach, I was wondering about using a servo or stepper motor. New they’re a lot more expensive, but can be found used fairly reasonably. The thing is I really don’t want/need another project.

What do you think about this one? It would take pulleys which would push the cost up a bit (and become a bit of a project).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170871704954?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

[david pierce]

Achipro,
A stepper motor is generally used in open loop control systems and is driven with pulses. By carefully counting the steps (square wave pulses) going from the output board into the motor the angular movement of the motor shaft can be carefully controlled. A servo motor is used in a closed loop control system and is a DC motor with a rotary resolver and a tachometer attached to the shaft. When electircal power is applied to the motor it simply turns. The resolver and tachometer send information back to the computer so it knows when to stop. Both motors are used for precise positioning. Most steppers are generally low horsepower but the servo motors can be powerful, massive and expensive. All you need to drive the spindle on your lathe is a regular, ordinary motor. If it turns it will do the job perfectly. A DC motor like your Hamilton Beach, can be controlled with a common sewing machine pedal or an inexpensive (Harbor Freight) router controler. I personally prefer small AC induction motors and control the speed with pulleys and belts. I like them because they are quiet.
david

[david pierce]

Tmac,
For pocket watch cases and metal spinning in general I would personally go with a wood turning lathe. For this type of operation you need a lot of torque and power. High precision is less important. A wood lathe with enough power to do this will cost far less than a metal lathe with enough power. One of the favorite lathes that metal spinners use is called a ONE WAY. This is a high end wood lathe but a far less expensive wood lathe will also work.
david

[tmac1956]

@david pierce wrote:

Tmac,
For pocket watch cases and metal spinning in general I would personally go with a wood turning lathe. For this type of operation you need a lot of torque and power. High precision is less important. A wood lathe with enough power to do this will cost far less than a metal lathe with enough power. One of the favorite lathes that metal spinners use is called a ONE WAY. This is a high end wood lathe but a far less expensive wood lathe will also work.
david

David:

I’ll check that one out. However, if I’ve got to buy a bigger lathe for other uses, would something like the Taig that you use work, or do I need some specifically for that purpose like the ONE WAY that you recommend?

Don’t you ever get tired of these dummy questions?

Thanks!
tmac

[tmac1956]

David, et. al:

Have you ever seen or used one of these lathes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1bvyFG3hWM&list=UU1sHtXO11wEfNh_E2NNQoUw&index=4

Thanks,
tmac

[david pierce]

Tmac,
The ONE WAY lathe is a very expensive woodturning lathe and is far more than one would need to make a pocket watch case. A few of the smaller wood lathes that come to mind are SHOP FOX, RIKON and JET. Check out GRIZZLY TOOLS, HIGHLAND WOODWORKING and WOODCRAFT and see what they have to offer. Also, I believe that metal spinning is popular in those circles for cups, candle holders etc.
As far as the Lorch goes I own a small Geneva style Lorch but I like the Wolf Jahns a lot better. The Lorch has some funky things about it like the spindle adjustment for the cone bearings. Keep in mind that these machines are no longer made and the accessories and repair parts are hard to come by. Also know that your LEVIN is one of the finest machines ever made. There is a book written by Louis and Samuel Levin called PRACTICAL BENCHWORK FOR HOROLOGISTS that you may want to get. I got a copy off of Ebay but you might be able to also find a copy from Amazon.

[achipo]

@david pierce wrote:

Achipro,
A stepper motor is generally used in open loop control systems and is driven with pulses. By carefully counting the steps (square wave pulses) going from the output board into the motor the angular movement of the motor shaft can be carefully controlled. A servo motor is used in a closed loop control system and is a DC motor with a rotary resolver and a tachometer attached to the shaft. When electircal power is applied to the motor it simply turns. The resolver and tachometer send information back to the computer so it knows when to stop. Both motors are used for precise positioning. Most steppers are generally low horsepower but the servo motors can be powerful, massive and expensive. All you need to drive the spindle on your lathe is a regular, ordinary motor. If it turns it will do the job perfectly. A DC motor like your Hamilton Beach, can be controlled with a common sewing machine pedal or an inexpensive (Harbor Freight) router controler. I personally prefer small AC induction motors and control the speed with pulleys and belts. I like them because they are quiet.
david

David,
You obviously know your motors. I was just trying to overcome the low torque with the rheostat at low RPM. you’re right–anything that spins will work.

Evan

[Bob Tascione]

Great thread! My lathe came with a Hamilton Beach motor (I assume 3450 RPM, but it seems faster?) about 1/16 HP. It doesn’t have a speed control, and rather than go the foot rheostat approach, I was wondering about using a servo or stepper motor. New they’re a lot more expensive, but can be found used fairly reasonably. The thing is I really don’t want/need another project.

What do you think about this one? It would take pulleys which would push the cost up a bit (and become a bit of a project).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170871704954?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Hi Evan,
That’s an interesting motor. Torque can become a big issue with jewelers watch maker lathes when heavier cuts are needed…especially when dealing with low rpm. When used for normal staff and stem work it’s not usually a problem but when larger stuff needs to be machined it can be a hassle. One way around it is to use a counter shaft setup. What many watch makers are doing now is going with a motor and controller setup like Sherlines constant torque motor/controller combo thus eliminating the need for the countershaft system. I’ve heard many good reports about their use with watchmakers lathes. Sherline used to have a torque chart somewhere either on their site or possible it’s up on mine that shows the torque curve at differing rpms (go to my page at http://tascione.com/source.htm and scroll down to where it says “Sherline Products”). I’ll try to locate it for you. These motors are great and may be what you’re looking for. I don’t know about the one you linked to but would be curios to find out.

Hope this helps Evan!
Bob

[Bob Tascione]

Hi Evan,
Dug up a torque chart online. You’ll see the chart at the bottom of the page at:
http://www.sherline.com/dimen.htm

Also found some interesting info about the Sherline motor at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SherlineCNC/message/8101

I’ve used the Sherline lathe and mill with this constant torque motor a lot and consider it a good machine to motor match.

Enjoy,
Bob

[achipo]

Bob,
Thanks! I’ve heard good things about the Sherline motors as well.

Evan

[tmac1956]

@david pierce wrote:

Tmac,
The ONE WAY lathe is a very expensive woodturning lathe and is far more than one would need to make a pocket watch case. A few of the smaller wood lathes that come to mind are SHOP FOX, RIKON and JET. Check out GRIZZLY TOOLS, HIGHLAND WOODWORKING and WOODCRAFT and see what they have to offer. Also, I believe that metal spinning is popular in those circles for cups, candle holders etc.
As far as the Lorch goes I own a small Geneva style Lorch but I like the Wolf Jahns a lot better. The Lorch has some funky things about it like the spindle adjustment for the cone bearings. Keep in mind that these machines are no longer made and the accessories and repair parts are hard to come by. Also know that your LEVIN is one of the finest machines ever made. There is a book written by Louis and Samuel Levin called PRACTICAL BENCHWORK FOR HOROLOGISTS that you may want to get. I got a copy off of Ebay but you might be able to also find a copy from Amazon.

David:
This looks like a reasonable investment. Would this model be robust enough to turn out pocket watch cases?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-16-Heavy-Duty-Bench-Top-Wood-Lathe/G0657

Thanks!
tmac

[david pierce]

Tmac,
That looks like a good heavy powerful lathe and should take the abuse that metal spinning will put on it.
david

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