Lathe motors…

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  • #48459
    tmac1956
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    All:

    I have purchased a used Watchmakers Levin 8MM lathe with collet holding tailstock with a stand, but no motor or foot pedal. Since I’m just getting started, I have a couple of questions.

    1. Where can one get a good new or rebuilt motor/foot pedal outside of eBay?
    2. What should the hourse power be?
    3. What pulleys should it have?
    4. Should it be reversable?

    Please feel free to provide any additional info that you deem important.

    Thank you SOOOOO much in advance for any help you can provide.

    tmac1956

    #52642
    david pierce
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    tmac 1956,
    The best motor for the least amount of money is a common sewing machine motor. You can usually buy these from a local sewing machine store or if you go to a pawn shop you can buy an entire sewing machine for around $25.00 . Then you can remove the motor and foot pedal and throw the rest of the machine away. You can also buy a motor and pulley from TAIG for around $110.00. For $200.00 you can get a fantastic motor with pulleys from SINCERE or MERLIN.
    Is your LEVIN a ball bearing or cone bearing lathe?
    david

    #52643
    tmac1956
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    david:

    I hate to show my ignorance, but I honestly didn’t know that there was anything but ball bearings. I got it on eBay – here’s the description.

    “The chrome is very nice and looks to be unworn and well cared for. The headstock has bronze or brass bearings that show no wear of scratches. I oiled and adjusted them and installed a new belt. The tail stock is, as you can see a collet holding and the fit of the sliding collet holder is still snug showing little or no use. The tool holder has turned darker with age but is made by Levin and I beleive is original to the lathe. This has been together all its life and not made up of assorted parts. Great head and tailstock alignment. Bed shows little or no wear…”

    Perhaps you can deduce that from the above. Is there a problem with one type over the other?

    Thanks,
    tmac

    #52644
    tmac1956
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    @david pierce wrote:

    tmac 1956,
    snip…

    For $200.00 you can get a fantastic motor with pulleys from SINCERE or MERLIN.

    snip…
    david

    Went to eBay and found some stuff from Merlin. So… could I match up this motor
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/120937711813?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

    with this foot pedal?
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Variable-Speed-Foot-Pedal-Switch-Watchmaker-lathe-/120818875411?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c215dbc13

    Thanks david.

    Tom

    #52645
    david pierce
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    Tom,
    Levin lathes are just about the most sought after small lathes ever made. Some day when you turn 85 years old and decide to sell it you will get a lot more than you paid for it. I sounds like yours is a cone bearing lathe. The main difference as far as performance goes is the ball bearings in a ball bearing lathe are rated to turn at about 15,000 rpm which is desireable for extremely small drills and turned parts. The ball bearing Levin lathe should be able to run at 10,000 rpm with no problems. The cone bearing lathe, as in yours, should not be run over 3,000 rpm or you could run the risk of galling the bearing surface of the spindle and the cone bearings.
    The TAIG motor and the SINCERE motor are both induction motors and turn 1725 rpm and 3450 rpm respectivly. A universal motor usually turns around 10,000 rpm but will lose torque as the rpm drops. This necessities the use of a foot pedal to provide extra power as the motor lugs down under a load. An induction motor once sized to the work load will not change rpm as the load varies. This will provide more consistancy on turning operations. As far as your motor goes, your motor and pulley setup should be such that your lathe will not be able to exceed 3,000 rpms. For my use I would get the Sincere motor and regulate the lathe speed with the pulley setup. With a three cone pulley on the motor and a three cone pulley on the lathe, you will have a choice of nine possible speed combinations. That should suffice for any machining requirements you will have.
    david

    #52646
    tmac1956
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    @david pierce wrote:

    Tom,
    Levin lathes are just about the most sought after small lathes ever made. Some day when you turn 85 years old and decide to sell it you will get a lot more than you paid for it. I sounds like yours is a cone bearing lathe. The main difference as far as performance goes is the ball bearings in a ball bearing lathe are rated to turn at about 15,000 rpm which is desireable for extremely small drills and turned parts. The ball bearing Levin lathe should be able to run at 10,000 rpm with no problems. The cone bearing lathe, as in yours, should not be run over 3,000 rpm or you could run the risk of galling the bearing surface of the spindle and the cone bearings.
    The TAIG motor and the SINCERE motor are both induction motors and turn 1725 rpm and 3450 rpm respectivly. A universal motor usually turns around 10,000 rpm but will lose torque as the rpm drops. This necessities the use of a foot pedal to provide extra power as the motor lugs down under a load. An induction motor once sized to the work load will not change rpm as the load varies. This will provide more consistancy on turning operations. As far as your motor goes, your motor and pulley setup should be such that your lathe will not be able to exceed 3,000 rpms. For my use I would get the Sincere motor and regulate the lathe speed with the pulley setup. With a three cone pulley on the motor and a three cone pulley on the lathe, you will have a choice of nine possible speed combinations. That should suffice for any machining requirements you will have.
    david

    David:
    I’m so appreciative tthat you took your time to help an ignorant newbie like me – otherwise, I would probably have burned up the bearings in my lathe. While I do understand the pulley setup, how does one measure the RPMs on a given set of pulleys? Is it a calculation based upon the size of the pulleys and the constant speed of the induction motor… say 3450 rpm for the SINCERE?

    Additionally, can you post a link to SINCERE in eBay as all I can find is the MERLIN stuff.

    Again… thanks for all of the help!

    tmac1956

    #52647
    david pierce
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    Tom,
    The pulley system can be analyzed with a mathematical proportion. The initial fromula can be stated as:
    MOTOR RPM * MOTOR PULLEY DIAMETER = LATHE RPM * LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER. If you know three of these components you can solve for the unknown fourth component. For example, if you know the motor rpm, the motor pulley diameter, desired lathe rpm and want to calculate the LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER, you can rearrange the formula to state ((MOTOR RPM * MOTOR PULLEY DIAMETER) / LATHE RPM) = LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER. The homework assignment for today will be to solve for the other three components.
    I found SINCERE TOOLS initially by going to Ebay and looking under WATCHMAKER LATHES. If you scroll through this section until you find a picture of their lathe you will find it. Also, they are always listing their cross slides for sale for $245.00 and you can click them on from there as well. I think they also have a page on the general internet and will take a look.
    david

    #52648
    david pierce
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    Tom,
    The name of the company is SINCERE CLOCKS not SINCERE TOOLS. Sorry about that. Also, I looked on the general internet and all of the listings for this company go to Ebay.
    david

    #52649
    tmac1956
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    @david pierce wrote:

    Tom,
    The name of the company is SINCERE CLOCKS not SINCERE TOOLS. Sorry about that. Also, I looked on the general internet and all of the listings for this company go to Ebay.
    david

    Got it. Thanks!

    #52650
    tmac1956
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    @david pierce wrote:

    Tom,
    The pulley system can be analyzed with a mathematical proportion. The initial fromula can be stated as:
    MOTOR RPM * MOTOR PULLEY DIAMETER = LATHE RPM * LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER. If you know three of these components you can solve for the unknown fourth component. For example, if you know the motor rpm, the motor pulley diameter, desired lathe rpm and want to calculate the LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER, you can rearrange the formula to state ((MOTOR RPM * MOTOR PULLEY DIAMETER) / LATHE RPM) = LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER. The homework assignment for today will be to solve for the other three components.
    I found SINCERE TOOLS initially by going to Ebay and looking under WATCHMAKER LATHES. If you scroll through this section until you find a picture of their lathe you will find it. Also, they are always listing their cross slides for sale for $245.00 and you can click them on from there as well. I think they also have a page on the general internet and will take a look.
    david

    Thanks. This is exactly what I needed!!!

    #52651
    tmac1956
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    @david pierce wrote:

    Tom,
    The pulley system can be analyzed with a mathematical proportion. The initial fromula can be stated as:
    MOTOR RPM * MOTOR PULLEY DIAMETER = LATHE RPM * LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER. If you know three of these components you can solve for the unknown fourth component. For example, if you know the motor rpm, the motor pulley diameter, desired lathe rpm and want to calculate the LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER, you can rearrange the formula to state ((MOTOR RPM * MOTOR PULLEY DIAMETER) / LATHE RPM) = LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER. The homework assignment for today will be to solve for the other three components.
    I found SINCERE TOOLS initially by going to Ebay and looking under WATCHMAKER LATHES. If you scroll through this section until you find a picture of their lathe you will find it. Also, they are always listing their cross slides for sale for $245.00 and you can click them on from there as well. I think they also have a page on the general internet and will take a look.
    david

    David:

    I took a look at both the SINCERE and MERLIN motors on eBay and they both appear to be made by the same Chinese manufacturer. Well, they seem to have the same specifications anyway. So, might I assume that either will work? Here’s the one I’m looking at:

    110V motor with 2 gear belt pulleys,3 gear belt pulleys for watchmaker lathe. AC110V 60HZ, 3400r/min

    Additionally, given the different configuration of pulleys in this arrangement, would there be any future benifit from purchasing a lathe countershaft?

    Thanks!

    Tom

    #52652
    david pierce
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    Tom,
    SINCERE, MERLIN, SMASHWATCH, CTC, etc. are distributors and sell the same motor. A few years ago I bought one for my SINCERE LATHE from SINCERE and recently bought another one from MERLIN for a BERGEON LATHE I recently purchased. Both companies gave great service and were good to deal with.
    The counter shaft will allow the lathe to run slower without a loss in torque. A universal motor with a foot pedal will lose torque at slow speeds which can cause problems. For pivot turning and general small part turning the counter shaft will not be necessary. If you need to turn something with a larger diameter you will need it. An example of this would be a slitting saw. If you run the slitting saw at a high speed you will burn the teeth and destroy the saw. If you run the saw at a proper slower speed you do not want the blade to stall out while making the cut. A counter shaft is something you can always add later if you need it.
    david

    #52653
    Bob Tascione
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    This is some great info David!
    I’ve picked up some good tips from this thread.

    Thanks!!
    Bob

    #52654
    tmac1956
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    @david pierce wrote:

    Tom,
    The pulley system can be analyzed with a mathematical proportion. The initial fromula can be stated as:
    MOTOR RPM * MOTOR PULLEY DIAMETER = LATHE RPM * LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER. If you know three of these components you can solve for the unknown fourth component. For example, if you know the motor rpm, the motor pulley diameter, desired lathe rpm and want to calculate the LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER, you can rearrange the formula to state ((MOTOR RPM * MOTOR PULLEY DIAMETER) / LATHE RPM) = LATHE PULLEY DIAMETER. The homework assignment for today will be to solve for the other three components.
    I found SINCERE TOOLS initially by going to Ebay and looking under WATCHMAKER LATHES. If you scroll through this section until you find a picture of their lathe you will find it. Also, they are always listing their cross slides for sale for $245.00 and you can click them on from there as well. I think they also have a page on the general internet and will take a look.
    david

    david:
    A few more questions…

    1) The SINCERE motors appear to have two different wiring schemes for clock-wise/counter clock-wise directions. DId you wire up some kind of toggle switch for this?
    2) Under what circumstances wowuld one need to change motor directions?

    Thanks!
    tmac

    #52655
    david pierce
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    Tmac,
    Reversing the lathe direction is usually used in conjunction with cutting threads. You may want to cut an internal thread and have the boring threading tool thread on the way out of the part instead of in to the part. Another application might be to cut a metric thread with an inch pitched lead screw. Since there is no particular mathematical correlation between the inch based lead screw and the metric thread the carriage will have to be threaded back on each cut. The reverse feature can also be used to back out taps. This is engine lathe work and does not apply well to watchmaker lathes. I know, I know, some watchmaker lathes (Levin, Boley) have back gear sets that hook a drive shaft to the crosslide but in my view the setup is at best Mickey Mouse. That is the major reason you don’t see a lot of backgear sets for sale for these lathes. It is more of a novility than a useful tool. Harbor Freight, Grizly and other companies sell engine lathes with back gears that are set up for this kind of work.
    This brings us to what direction do you want your motor to turn? This depends upon how you mount the motor. If you are looking at the back of the lathe you will see the lathe turning clockwise. Your motor must turn in a direction that makes the lathe do this. Most people would want the motor mounted on a bench or a board along side the lathe. In that case the lathe and the motor would turn in a clockwise direction when looking at the back of the lahe. Sherline, I believe, flip the motor around so it hangs out on the outside of the lathe. In that case the motor would have to turn counterclockwise for the lathe to turn clockwise when looking at the back of the lathe.
    These motors can also be wired for 220 volts. Make sure that you wire it for 110 volts or you will fry the capicator. No, you do not need a toggle switch.

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