balance pivot

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  • #49079
    bobpat
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 14
    • Total Posts: 97

    I picked up an Illinois 16s, 17 jewel, . Person said “The top pivot of the balance staff is broken.. Balance swings in the dial down position”..never mentioned the mainspring was broke, I replaced that, first one, hardest part about that is trying to get the t-end into the little hole when you release the winder, only took 5 times to succeed, It runs good in all positions except dial -up :? , I checked the jewels, they are fine, I checked the staff pivots and I can’t see where one is broken, they both look the same to me, but like he said, when you turn the watch dial -up, it stops.. Any Thoughts?

    #58043
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    Is there much side shake? also check the endshake on the balance, while dial up look to see if anything is touching anything else, could be several things….even if the staff pivots look the same they could be worn or broken
    @bobpat wrote:

    only took 5 times to succeed

    With that your doing well ;)… good job …..William

    #58044
    bobpat
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 14
    • Total Posts: 97

    willofiam.. no side shake, didn’t check endshake. I checked pivots under magnification, saw no wear,or breaks, pivot ends look clean and smooth..if I turn movement up and shake it a little. I can hear something rattling around. Balance and balance cock removed.. :?

    #58045
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    Bob, apart from changing the mainspring and checking the pivots, what else did you do to the movement? i.e. have you disassembled it completely and inspected/cleaned all the parts?

    If possible, can you use your loupe to take a photo of the pivots? Somehow support the balance on its side, without resting on the hairspring, and take a shot of both pivots, on its side.

    You say that there is NO end shake at all? How about when you try to lift up, gently, on the balance, does it move vertically ?

    #58046
    bobpat
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 14
    • Total Posts: 97

    Chris, no I haven’t disassembled the entire watch, just changed the mainspring. I checked side shake but haven’t checked endshake, will need to put balance back, but I will .Runs good til I turn it dial up… How do you take a picture using the Loupe??

    #58047
    bobpat
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 14
    • Total Posts: 97

    CHRIS



    . Three pics. cool trick with the camera and loupe.Other than being dirty, all I see is the pivot on the left appears to be smaller(worn) or maybe its the way I took the pics. That one would be the pivot holding all the weight of the balance if you hold watch dial up.. Can you see that too or is it me??/

    #58048
    randy
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 39
    • Total Posts: 594

    I’m with Chris.
    Tear it down and clean it.
    Could be something as simple as some old dried oil/gunk in the jewel cups and on the pivots.
    Especially if it you can get it to run a bit when you twist it on it’s axis in the dial up position.

    If nothing else, you get the chance to examine everything as you are cleaning it.

    Best,

    Randy

    #58049
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    great pictures, I will have to try that…will be interesting to see what is rattling around in there, have a great day. William

    #58050
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    Great pics Bob, thanks, and yes, like Randy suggests, always best practice to strip down these old movements and give them a thorough cleaning.
    I do see fuzzies and lots of grime on the pivots/conical part.
    The jewels are probably gummed up, guaranteed. So this should be part of the problem.

    Just a suggestion, when you push out the balance jewel settings, do them one at a time so you don’t accidentally mix upper and lower.
    You might also want to make yourself a little enclosed area, like a cardboard box, with part cut out for your hands, so if the tiny settings screws go PING they should stay in that area. Also the settings can fly while you clean them. I do them on a silicone tray so they stick but aren’t gummy after.

    Remember to take lots of memory shots :-)

    #58051
    bobpat
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 14
    • Total Posts: 97

    Thanks guys. I will clean the movement. Best way to clean jewels? And the camera and post its are my best friend. My memory is getting old, and you know what they say, “Your memory is as long as your’, well you know the rest of it.. I will let you know how it works out…

    #58052
    bobpat
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 14
    • Total Posts: 97

    Also, that was an great idea with the camera and loupe, it take a little getting use to , but the results are pretty good for my first time.. :)

    #58053
    tmac1956
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 171
    • Total Posts: 1259

    Bob:

    After you clean the movement, I would suggest that you peg those jewel holes and then hit them with a little Rodico ( or Silly Putty).

    Those are some great pictures my friend. You used the camera and a loop? Not zoomed – just with the loop correct?

    Thanks!
    Tom

    #58054
    david pierce
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 90
    • Total Posts: 1360

    Bob,
    Check the cap jewel and depth of the pivot jewel to make sure it prevents the cone of the pivot from dropping into the pivot jewel hole. You may need to make a jewel position readjustment with a Seitz (or similar) jeweling press.
    david

    #58055
    bobpat
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 14
    • Total Posts: 97

    Tom,
    I First I used just the loupe and camera but was satisfied, so I used the loupe and zoom ,,that made all the difference. I could of even gotten closer.. Its a real neat tool . I was impressed. Chis gave me the idea and am glad he did, I think it will be a very useful tool.

    #58056
    bobpat
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 14
    • Total Posts: 97

    Thanks David,, I would never of thought of that. I have a Seitz jewelers press, it will be the first time I use it 😯

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