winding stem?

[watchthebear]

HI, real newbie here. I have watched the watch repair videos about 4 times and decided to start in. I got 2 pocket watches–large ones–a waltham and an elgin, and i begin following the video to get them apart and find out and deal w/ whatever caused them not to run. I hit a wall right away. I got as far as removing the movement from the case. At that point, where on Mr. Fascione’s video the crown and stem came off w/ the case, my stem just stayed put; it is about 5/8’s of an inch longer than the watch in the video, and it won’t move. I can make it wind, i let out the main spring tension, but there is no way i can see to get the stem seperate from the movement. There are some little plates around where the first winding gear is, but i haven’t touched anything. I don’t know how to show pictures, but this must be so common that someone will know right away what i am confromted w/. thanks in advance……………………bear

[Bob Tascione]

Welcome to the forum Bear!

Sorry, it could just be me but I’m not too sure if I’m understanding the problem and would probably need more info about the watches like the size and type of case and possibly the movement model number if you’re not able to add a pic. Are you saying that the stem stays in the movement after the movement has been removed from the case rather than staying in the case? Pictures would really help us. If you have a digital camera then there’s a post here at the forum that will explain how to upload a pic to the forum at http://clockrepairtips.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=317.
If a pic isn’t possible then some or all of the info I mentioned above might do the trick.

Again welcome Bear,
Bob

[watchthebear]

Sorry to have explained so poorly. I’ll try to describe it plainly: now the bezel and the movement are free from each other except for the stem. the movement is free to move except it is connected still to the bezel, crown and all. It’s sort of like the movement is just hanging there, but can’t be freed because the stem can’t be pulled out of it. I will read about pix, and posting them. thanks for your response……b.

[Bob Tascione]

Hey no problem Bear,
In most cases the crown/stem can be snapped back into the setting position and then the movement carefully worked out of the case. Some cases are different though. Try looking for a small screw in the pendant that might be holding the stem in. Also some cases may have a knurled ring threaded onto the pendant (not too common) right under the crown (as shown in the Stems, Sleeves and Crowns video) that can be loosened allowing sleeve along with the stem to be pulled back away from the movement if necessary. Just guessing here without a pic though but maybe this will help.
You did mention that the stem seems longer than the type I show in the course which has me a little confused so do be very careful as I still may not be visualizing this too clearly. If in doubt try getting some pics up here and we can try to figure out what’s going on. Better safe!

Bob

[watchthebear]

Hello all, It was the very small screw just to the left of the stem. 2 turns was not quite enough, a tiny bit more and the stem came out. Thanks for the help………b

[oldmantime]

Hello B, It’s good to know that you were able to remove the stem.
I can understand and relate to the confusion here because I was also confused yesterday when I read it. I would like to point out the importance of giving as much information as possible when asking about a problem with a watch. It seems that your movement has a set lever that later 16 size and smaller movements like the Elgin 571 used. When you wrote “I got 2 pocket watches–large ones–a waltham and an elgin” I and most likely Bob and others who are following this post assumed an 18 size older movement that would not have had a set lever. Giving the size of the movement would have made it an easier diagnoses since we would have known that there was a possibility of your watch having a set lever and with a picture we would have known for sure. This simple diagnoses would have been the first thing that would need to be checked. There are so many different types of watches so the more information given the better and the less chance of confusion.
Peter

[watchthebear]

Hello, maybe i don’t understand, but Bob shows work on a “lever set” movement. Mine was/is a “stem set”. Am i confused again? Of course i explained things poorly; people who know absolutely nothing about the subject at hand tend to do that. I hope to improve my questions as i become more familiar w/ the terms and their meanings. As for writing good, tight technical prose, 16 years of being disabled due to brain damage has made that a pretty remote possibility. But, I will try to improve to the best of my understanding. Thanks for all comments………….b

[oldmantime]

Hello B,
I hope I didn’t offend and if I did please forgive me. It’s rare for me to post on a forum so I’m not good at conveying my feelings in the written word. I sincerely do want to help. I do try to read all posts up on our forum each day and have noticed that confusion usually is due to lack of important information. Your description wasn’t bad at all and of course it takes time to get the nomenclature down. I only meant to help by stating the reason for my confusion which was the need for more information – in my case. In fact adding as much information is more important for those who are starting out since incorrect or missing nomenclature may result in a vague or erroneous description. That extra bit of information might help solidify the context of a post and reduce the possibility of receiving incorrect and possibly dangerous responcs. This may be the reason bob added – “so do be very careful as I still may not be visualizing this too clearly” – to his post. This is the same reason that material houses ask for so much information when ordering parts. I don’t think you can ever give a material house to much information!
I thought Bob covered both negative and positive setting in the course but I didn’t see it when I checked. Maybe I’m wrong. Bob or anyone????
I do hope this helps B and please accept my apology if I offended you. Peter

[Bob Tascione]

Hi Bear and Peter,
I too hope that you didn’t take offense as Peter is giving good advise to all of us. As far as your disability goes it doesn’t show. Your posts are good and clear. When in doubt though just try to pour on a bunch of info about a watch because as Peter says that extra bit could bring it all together. The digital camera is about the biggest help you can find when it comes to technical horological forums so if you need any help at all figuring out how to post pics up here just let us know. It can be a little tricky at first but gets easier after that first one.
You know I think both of you are right about the type of setting mech. Peter I do cover negative and positive setting but I think B is right about not covering the type that he has. I do cover stem setting though and not just lever (in the Stems, Sleeves and Crowns section). I’ll check but I think that’s correct.
In any event a picture of either side of the movement would have revealed what you had and the first thing that would have been suggested would be to check that screw. Knowing that it was a 16 size rather than the 18 size which I too thought it was would also have helped. No harm done though B…you’re just starting out! When you go through the forum and see how many times I leave out important info (and I’ve been doing this stuff for a while so have no excuse) you’ll realize you’re doing just fine!
Sorry if it seems like I’m taking sides on this one Peter but that “b” is short for “Bear” 😈

Enjoy!
Bob

[watchthebear]

Hi all, here is what i can add: the watch is a Moeris, the movement is un-numbered. the dial (i am almost sure, is not original to the watch) is not marked, the back is certainly not original. In the knife trade we would say i have a “fantasy watch”, or a “parts watch”. This info carrys over to my question about the hairspring…………thanks in advance for any help………..b

[Bob Tascione]

Thanks B that helps a bunch!
Moeris (Swiss) made some nice looking pocket and wrist watches. You can take a look at the links below to see if it looks anything like those in the pics but should be pretty close. In the pics you can see the small screw that you mentioned and the pic under the dial should be similar.
http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&Moeris_19H
http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t50900-gousset-moeris-vos-avis

This info should help for your hairspring post. I’ll jump over to that topic right now.

Bob

[watchthebear]

Thanks Bob for posting the links. That was very helpful. Stay well all…………..b

[Bob Tascione]

You’re welcome B!
Glad to hear they helped.

Bob

[Author]

Posts