well, here goes

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  • #48187
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    Hello everyone, stepping out with a recent clock overhaul. DO NOT QUOTE ANY OF THIS until its been properly corrected. thank you….First, I knew the clock would only run for a few seconds then stop, at the time I figured it was just dirty, I was just starting out. when I got to it I started to dismantle it and when I got to taking the dial off I broke a taper pin off trying to pull it out, then somehow I was able to break the other side of the same taper pin 😳 , with just enough to hold it on yet nothing to grab hold of. I could not punch it out for the life of me, so I filed it to the post and was able to remove the remaining pin later. made a tool that may work in the future for pushing taper pins out, any sugjestions on this issue????, besides not breaking it in the first place???? After taking about a hundred pics of how it should look when done I started to take apart, taking more pics as I went. this really helped for reassembly. I noticed slight grooves on the pallets of the escapement anchor.. I read that these can be rotated if originally made correct, otherwise you can turn new ones. I used a diamond sharpening stone and lightly removed the grooves, I then finished the surface with a ceramic file. Supposedly the angle doesnt have to be exact but the locking should be 1/2 degree or a little more from the pivot of the anchor to the top of the escape wheel teeth, or is that the drop???. I also noticed that this has a adjustable anchor pivot, at least thats what I am thinking. Moving on I cleaned all parts ultrasonically and used the timesavers old time solution, seems to work well but my experience is limited. I rebushed several pivot bushings by hand(I wanted to get a machine but figured if I do it by hand I will learn more about it), It was difficult at first but after practice and your videos I got the hang of it pretty quick. I recently purchased an old KWM bushing machine with all the reamers ect…works better than expected, I had already bought the bergeon bushing kit so I am going to get some bergeon reamers and outfit for both styles, I like the bergeon assortment but if I come across a KWM or American set that is cheap I will be able to use my machine for any kind, does this sound over the top????. I checked the mainsprings and one barrel had the pin bent and causing the barrel to push out at that point, I figured someone had wound it so tight that it caused this to happen, I did not see any cracks and decided to punch it back into shape, also the mainspring had the end of it tore off so I cut it and put a new locking hole in it to match what had been there, otherwise the springs and all looked good. THAT was my main cause of the clock not working ;) . I checked all pivots and smoothed and burnished ones that needed it. putting it back together was a challenge for me, getting old, you know, 48 now, and vision is getting worse, and Bob as you know so is the memory, (used all my photos), I should be able to do this in my sleep by now as I have taken it apart about a dozen times, (great for learning) 🙄 . while assembling I had accidentally bent the flywheel pivot 😯 , I eventually found this out and straightened it out with smooth nose pliers. Can you use a punch with a hole in it for this?????? thought I heard that.
    did some reading on pendulums and found a chart that shows clock trains with length of pendulum (Practical clock repairing by Donald de Carle). using the # of escape wheel teeth = 26 for this clock the pendulum should be 10.49 inches in length with 115.9 vibrations of pend. per minute. I am thinking that since the pend. measures approx.16″ from the suspension spring attachment then 2/3rds of the length would be the actual pendulum length from the crutch assembly, total. Using the thought of the center of oscillation. this makes sense to me for this clock but might not really mean anything. I noticed after all together that the forks on the crutch had to be snug but not tight to allow for the pend. to move perpendicular to the clockworks, also that the forks must be at 90 degrees to the plates or else the pendulum will have a oval swing, do I see this right???? does the deadbeat require a pendulum impulse area as you show on your video??? Well, I now know what you meant when you said that the time train will frustrate people to the point of giving up, this has been my worst enemy. Never worked right and still intermittent issues. the only way I could get it to gong properly was having the knife fall onto the locking plate a little bit past the dropoff while it wound the hammer into the up position, otherwise it would gong the 1/2 hour too many times in a row..????? still frustrating to me but I will not let it win!!!! 😆 so far it is keeping good time and I look forward to any feedback.
    William

    #51137
    arutha
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 85
    • Total Posts: 1536

    This is great William, I had the same problem with a taper pin breaking, I used another taper pin and gently tapped the broken pin out with a small hammer, I did forget which was the smaller diameter side so kept tapping at both sides until I got some movement.
    I am envious of your bushing machine, I will treat myself one day if I can stop myself from buying clocks.
    This is great and I look forward to the next episode :)
    Paul.

    #51138
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1559

    Really good post William!
    I only breezed through it just now and have to run out (one of those days..who said weekends are for relaxing?) but will try to dig into it when I get back tonight. Looks interesting!
    Thanks for posting it.
    Bob

    #51139
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1559

    Hi William,

    Yes I think you’re correct. The lock angle is a portion of arc whose center point would be the radius of circle swept by a pallet. The drop would be a portion of arc traced by an escape tooth tip whose center point would be the radius of the escape wheel. The half degree you mention seems pretty tight to me but if De Carle said 1/2 degree then I’m definitely wrong. I was under the impression that 1 to 2 degrees of lock and drop is the amount to shoot for. The less the better I guess. In practice I just eyeball it anyway and check for best performance. One thing that I feel is important and I try to shoot for is an equal inside and outside drop and equal entry pallet and exit pallet lock.

    Having both bushing options as you mention is always a good thing. KWM with their smaller O.D. makes for a cleaner looking job (just my opinion) but it’s often necessary to go with the larger O.D. that Bergeon offers so having both to choose from is nice.

    For pivot straightening I prefer using the smooth jawed pliers rather than a hole punch. I feel like I have more control over the straightening process because I can work slowly by pulling and bending, working it little by little. I use both ways but if the pivot is badly bent then I always play it safe and go with the plier method. You may find the complete opposite is true for you though.

    I can’t quite visualize what you’re saying about the half hour strike when you say

    otherwise it would gong the 1/2 hour too many times in a row.

    Can you possibly elaborate a little on that? I believe you do want the train to stop before lifting the hammer and have a small run at it when half hour strike begins.

    Again, good post William!!

    Bob

    #51140
    arutha
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 85
    • Total Posts: 1536

    Just thought I would add my 2 cents on the pivot bending, I use my watchmakers lathe, you have the tail stock spindle to give you an idea when its straight and the collets do a very good job of holding the other end, just gentle pressure until its straight.

    #51141
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    Bob and Paul,
    thank you, Paul your idea of using the lathe to check for staightness on a pivot is a great idea worth AT LEAST more than 2 cents :D , Bob I hope you are going to relax somewhat before a new monday shows up. What I mean about the gong is I have a wheel with notches on the outside of the back plate that stops the strike train when the knife falls into the notched area, or strike mechanism locking plate, I was having trouble with it striking the 1/2 hour more than once in that lower area instead of just once and then moving up and out of the way on the higher part of the locking plate, I thought I had it at one point with the knife falling right at the edge and the hammer staying down, which I understand is the correct way to set this up but I had the prob with too much space to get to the hour strike area, soooo I tweeked things again, THIS IS A MYSTERY, I will keep looking into this…. Since I first posted for some reason it is missing a strike pattern (probably while I sleep and cant keep an eye on it) 😆 I am wondering if this has to do with the flirt not being raising enough????? I am sure you are right Bob I think the 1/2degreee or a little more is the amount of locking. I need to read more about all that. :geek:

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willofiamwell, here goes