Welby Clock

[bernie weishapl]

Also have in for repair a Welby westminister chime clock. It also has a
balance wheel with hairspring between the plates. I have disassembled,
cleaned, repaired and oiled. I polished the pivots and pegged the holes.
The question I have is that this thing had what I would consider a very
strong time and strike mainspring. When I had it apart the time and strike
springs were pretty set. Uncoiled maybe 2 1/2″ to 3″ in diameter. I
measured the length and came up with pretty close to 44″ to 46″ and 45/64″
width. What got me was the thickness was .019. I measured it in 3
different places. The strike spring measured .018″. I figured it would
take a spring like the 43/64″ of a 350. It looks like a hermle 350 or 351.
So after I got it assembled I tried a 350 time spring and it would barely
go. I also had a 45/64″ X .017″ X 44″ and it didn’t go well either. So I
ordered a 45/64″ X .019 X 47″. I cleaned and installed it. It is running
great and keeps pretty accurate time. Am I making something out of nothing
or should there be concern at the strength of these two springs?? The
thing that concerns me is them being able to wind it all the way as it is
pretty strong to wind even with a large wing key. I have attached a couple
of pictures. Thanks.

[bernie weishapl]

Well back to my problem child the Welby clock. I have had this clock apart 3 times now. It has a hairspring balance wheel old style not the floating balance style. It runs about 5 1/2 days and quits. I remeasured the mainspring that came out of the unit. It was 45/64″ X .019″ X 45 3/4″. I replaced the time spring with a 45/64″ X .019″ X 47″. I have double checked all pivots under magnification and they look good. I have cleaned and pegged the holes several times. Installed bushings where needed. Doubled checked with my depthing tool to make sure I didn’t screw up there and have a problem. I am just frustrated and out of idea’s. I wanted to replace it but they said no they wanted to keep grandma’s clock intact. I may go out and put the old mainspring back in and see how it goes. That was one suggestion I had from a friend of mine.

[willofiam]

Hey Bernie, If like you said it is running for 5 + days without fault then I like the idea of trying the old mainspring first, if that does as good or better it could be that 1 1/4 in more mainspring is just enough to crowd it, in any case I would check that first. Do you have any info of the original mainspring size, meaning that it could be the wrong one someone put in at one point or another before you got it. I recently battled a desk clock and thought I had the right size mainspring only because of the one I took out….long story short it was .08mm or so too week, right one in and WHALLA all my problems solved….. 019″ does sound like a pretty thick mainspring though for that but I am not sure, if you have a longer thinner mainspring in stock it may be worth trying that. sorry for the scatter brain but writing as I think, (no wonderI get so tired 🙄 ) William

[bernie weishapl]

Hey William how are ya? At this point I will take ideas. I did notice today while watching the time train that the pallet fork was bouncing around a little bit so decided I would bush the escape wheel pivots front and back along with the pallet arbor. When the pallet forks were bouncing around I noticed that the guard pin was touching the roller at times. This in turn was causing the impulse pins to be slightly out of alignment with the fork. So that would cause a loss of power. I also put the old mainspring back in. Tomorrow morning I will reassemble it and see how it goes. Also William I have no idea if the mainspring is original but I am guessing it is not. I have just not seen a 350 style movement with a .019″ strength mainspring in one. Hoping the old spring will work ok. The new mainspring seems to fill the barrel quite full. I know after 5 days of running that it only winds about 6 to 7 turns which I think a 350 winds at least 12 or so turns. Interesting clock to say the least but will maybe set it aside if it still doesn’t run correctly. Then go back to it at a later date but hoping it will take off nicely tomorrow.

So for all of you new clockmakers even us old 30 yr vets get our rear end kicked every now and then. 😆 This clock has been apart 4 times. Just one of those things that even the littlest thing can be missed but can also create big problems. I would have replaced it because the same new version would have been a 350-060 but would have to reverse the chime rod assembly and also have to reverse the chime rods.

[bernie weishapl]

Well completed putting the clock together this morning except for the hammer assembly. So far tonight it is running stronger than it ever did. It also started with 3 or 4 turns this time and the old spring winds up 12 times. So what I ended up doing was to bush the escape wheel and the pallet fork. I also changed the pins in the pallet as looking at them under a microscope I could see notches worn in them. I oiled it with mobieus 8040 and used mobieus 941 on the pallet pins. So I have marked my calendar and hopefully it will run the full 7 days. I am a happy camper. Once in a while you need one of these to humble yourself.

[Bob Tascione]

Hey Bernie,
I’ve been following your thread wondering what the outcome would be. It’s been interesting. Good to know what the culprit was! Hopefully you’ll get a full run now. Please let us know. Will keep my fingers crossed for you.
Thanks for posting!
Bob

[arutha]

@Bernie Weishapl wrote:

So for all of you new clockmakers even us old 30 yr vets get our rear end kicked every now and then. 😆

It never seems to matter how careful I am Bernie, I find I can quite easily miss things first time around
Hope you have the problem sorted and will keep my fingers crossed for you

[bernie weishapl]

Thanks Bob and Paul. It is still running strong this morning. So I am hopeful that all is well.

Paul it is one of those things you just think there can’t be any wear there but I learned a hard lesson. I just have a cheap microscope but you can bet the pins on the pallet fork will be checked from this day forward. They had a grove worn in them that I couldn’t see by eye. After I found them I could feel them when running my fingernail over them lightly. I think the clock may have run without bothering those because I think after bushing the pallet fork pivots that was the main culprit.

Anyway thanks for the support. One of the main things with these posts was to get across to all the new clock and watch repairman that make sure you check every thing. Watch it run and note any problems you may see. Even what may be considered the tiniest/insignificant thing can cause major problems especially in the upper train because there is not much power there. I told and showed a new clock maker that I could stop a clocks escapement with just the tip of a feather. Anyway enough babble.

[willofiam]

Hey Bernie, I am with yall when it comes to not catching stuff, by experience I have added many things to the list of things to look for, how wonderful you have given me a couple more now with your generously given knowledge. It may seem that several hours would be wasted when looking a movement over first, trying to find all issues (I dont think you really can though), BUT in the end it actually saves time and makes everyone smile with good running clocks and watches.
when it all becomes easy….. maybe then we will know everything 🙄 fat chance though at least for me my request to yall would be if I start to think I know it all……PLEASE…..strike me over the head with a 2×4 😯 …William

[bernie weishapl]

Be careful what you ask for. I do have a 3 ft attitude adjustment tool as my granddad would call it. 😆

[arutha]

@Bernie Weishapl wrote:

Be careful what you ask for. I do have a 3 ft attitude adjustment tool as my granddad would call it. 😆

Hahaha..that is a brilliant name for it I am going to get a length and call it my “Customer Compliance Tool”

[bernie weishapl]

That is a good one Paul. Maybe I ought to hang it on the wall of my shop and call it, “Customer Attitude Adjustment Tool.” 😆

[willofiam]

Hey Bernie, I just posted a formula for finding mainspring length (in the hints, tips, and tricks) might not help here as I do not think you know the strength it was originally, but starting off with the strength you found in it could help determine if your new mainspring is too long or not. William

[bernie weishapl]

Thanks William.

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