Waltham Jump Hour

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  • #48270
    c.kelly
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 164

    Hi All,
    Just wanted talk a bit about my waltham project I started this past Friday. Got watch in mail and for some reason I figured it had mainspring issue. It has a PUW 1560 movement and a completely different way to make hour jump. Now to the funny stuff. I have worked on several automatics but all up to now have had an automatic unit that came off in one piece. This one didn’t and had to take off top plate slowly hoping for no surprises even though I could see a spring under there. Did that with no problems. Got to main plate underneath and it was one piece, no seperate barrel plate. Could not find a way to let down mainspring. No click or ratchet or even a screw to take off top winding gear. Well I’ve never been one let a minor problem like that slow me down. Decided to go ahead and just hold back barrel with my thumb. I had forgotten that I thought there was something wrong with mainspring in the first place. Anyway has anyone seen a watch explode? I was picking up pieces all over the room. Found them all and nothing was broken. Think what happened was that barrel had seperated a bit which was causing movement to not run and when the pressure from the plate was released k-blam. I had already looked up and found a similar movement because I was sure I needed parts. It arrived today and within the hour I had the mainspring and barrel out if it and into original movement. I already had old parts cleaned and inspected from when they blew up and I wanted to see if I could get automatic part back together properly. It was the easiest rebuild I have ever done. Wheels just seemed to jump into place. Have it all back in case and it is keeping perfect time for the past three hours. It went back together so quickly I didn’t get any pictures except for some on my phone of the jump hour mechanism.
    This jump hour is different from the Vulcain by how the hour disc is controlled. This hour disc is much like a date ring with a spring loaded lever keeping it held in place. On the hour wheel itself is a long spring bar that is attached to the hour disc. As the hour wheel moves this spring bar flexes and after an hour it has no choice but to move the hour disc. When you are putting the discs back you have to make the hour jump then put on the minute wheel set to 0 next to the proper hour. Might have to fine tune a bit but it’s pretty easy. Just rotate dials around and see when hour moves and then readjust minute wheel if needed. One thing you have to be aware of is minute disc holds hour disc in place so if minute wheel isn’t down far enough hour wheel will rise up, disengage and stop moving. Yes it happened to me. I was patiently waiting for hour disc to makes its first jump on its own and minute wheel kept on going past the hour and nothing happened. Took off second and minute discs and saw hour wheel has raised up to the point it was no longer being driven. Put it back in place and put minute wheel on a bit lower on pinion and so far so good.
    This one was almost too easy. Now I have to think up another project.
    Charles

    #51721
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1553

    Thanks for posting this Charles!
    I’ve been there more times than I wish to mention. Amazing how far those parts can fly when I forget to let down that spring!
    I don’t have that movement here with me to reference so this is just from memory SO attempt with caution because I may be wrong! If the movement doesn’t have an obvious click arrangement then it’s possible that you’ll find a hole in the top plate with access to a click that engages with the auto winding gears just under the rotor. You can swing the rotor out of the way to get to the hole. Might be somewhere around the 3 o’clock area. If you manually wind the watch and peek through the holes you should see the click moving if there is one. Again not sure so be careful and hold onto that crown.

    Sounds like you’re getting the hang of these jump hours!

    Please let us know if the click is or isn’t there as this may help others in the future.
    Adios for now,
    Bob

    #51722
    c.kelly
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 164

    You are right about where the let down was. There was a hole in the plate somewhere near the stem. You would be able to let down spring if you knew that in advance. After plate was removed it was pretty obvious, little too late for me. There were a few other parts I haven’t seen in the form this movement presented. There is a little spring, almost arrowhead shaped, that a small gear sets on that engages winding mechanism. It just sits in a slot on the main plate and the gear that sit ontop has a bit of room to move around a bit. Little tricky if you don’t see it ahead of time. Also another similar small piece under auto plate that is pushed by a spring to act as a ratchet type device there. At first I thought that might be a problem but I just put everything in place, put on plate then there was an opening which allowed me to take a screwdriver and set the spring in position. Biggest issue I have is I haven’t got anything to work on this weekend. I do have an old South Bend 18 sz 331 but I haven’t found parts for it yet. Needs a balance complete, the staff is broken and wheel is very rusty. It needs a set lever as the thumbnail hook has rusted off and a dial wouldn’t hurt either.
    Charles

    #51723
    c.kelly
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 164

    Hi All,
    Seems as if I always find watches with strange issues. In my earlier topic on this jump hour I mentioned that hour wheel rose up and would not jump when it was supposed to. My solution was just to push minute disc down a bit more to hold hour wheel down. That worked well for about a week. Hour wheel eventually worked its way up, pushed minute disc up causing it to hit seconds disc which stopped watch. Hour wheel just sits on cannon pinion with nothing holding it down. I tried a dial shim but that put a drag on minute disc which held it back when setting watch. Thought that gear which drives hour wheel may have teeth worn at an angle which could have caused hour wheel to push up. Changed that out. Now I have noticed a slight click when putting hour wheel in place. Is it possible that there might be a friction point on the cannon pinion that holds hour wheel down and it is worn out? This puw 1560 movement is a very easy movement to work on and I would reccommend it to anyone wanting to start on an automatic. If it had normal hands there would be no issue at all. Found two more partial movements at Dashto with dial parts intact which should solve issue but I’m just curious to know what’s causing problem in first place.
    Thanks,
    Charles

    #51724
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1553

    Hi Charles,
    Not having one here to look at I can only say that I don’t know but that what you are suggesting sure sounds possible if you’re feeling or hearing a small click when pushing the hour disk in place. I wish I could be of some help here. Maybe someone else will have the answer. If not then checking another movement as you said should answer your question.
    I’m curious to know so please post as soon as you figure it out.
    Bob
    ps
    I moved your last post from your new topic back to this original topic to maintain your thread continuity. Those of us following the thread would know that it was a continuation of this thread but future readers might not realize it and would kind of be left in the dark.

    #51725
    c.kelly
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 164

    Hi,
    Got the parts I needed in today. I am going to post two pictures. The one called without is the watch I have been working on. Except for the hour wheel looks like a fairly normal set up for a dial train. The picture entitled with will show the watch with a key part that I was missing. Hard to put a jigsaw puzzle together without all the parts. Hope the pictures help explain what I have been doing.
    Charles


    #51726
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1553

    Hey Charles thanks for following up with those pics.
    Yes they explain perfectly what the problem was!
    Good move on locating and grabbing that other movement.
    Interesting thread!
    Cheers and thanks again,

    Bob

    #51727
    c.kelly
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 164

    Hi,
    I actually got pretty lucky on the dial parts I found. I actually found what you see in picture entitled “with”. There was no drive train at all except for a good balance. Thought everyone might like to see how that movement worked. The 1560 version actually does not have that plate and holds hour wheel down with a dial shim. The 1560d which is the jump hour is the only one that uses the extra plate. What was confusing was that it fit exactly over the other plate so without it having been there in the first place it was hard to figure out what was going on. Makes it fun when you learn something new. My son-in-law brought me one of those Hamilton electrics to look at. Wasn’t a 500 or 505 so I may take a look and start researching.
    Charles

    #51728
    arutha
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 85
    • Total Posts: 1536

    I have found your whole experience very interesting Charles, I know how frustrating it can be when you put a lot of work into something only for it not to work. To find a part was missing must make you feel better knowing you did everything right :)
    Paul.

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c.kellyWaltham Jump Hour