Ultrasonic cleaner question

[arutha]

Hey Bernie,
as I said above we all have our own ways of doing things (your methods are the same as mine) but I am concerned about the use of ultrasonics on watch parts. If anyone else has any info I would sure be interested to hear what you have to say. I think it is also important that we keep an open mind as we never fully know what we are doing to these clocks and watches until time has past and we can see the effects we have had on them. If evidence comes to light that some of our methods may be harmful we need to change those methods.

Chris – I hope I have not come across in the wrong way, you are a diamond geezer and if I have come across badly I am sorry mate.
Paul.

[bernie weishapl]

I understand and agree with you Paul. Funny thing is I have these little screen strainers that you flip a lever and it opens up and has a chain on it with a hook. All of the watches I did before my eye sight started going were put into several of these and hung on the edge of my USC. I cleaned a awful lot of watches without any problems. Now I must say that most of the watches I have worked on have been Dad’s or grandpa’s old watch. Most were 7j, 11j, 15j, and a few 17j. No specials like Bunn Specials, etc. So I never worried about them. I think this is good to get this out and discuss it.

[chris mabbott]

Paul is a diamond geezer a good thing 😆

I can only go by what I read on other forums, hear others commenting on and what I’ve read on the net, also by my own use of a USC.
As I say, I’m not a user of USC’s for watch parts, so generally I don’t have to search for this info as I’ve reached my decision about their effects, but what info I do find, I kinda stumble across, which I think holds true for most of the info that we acquire, including the “positive” aspects of using USC.

The rest we have to, as my old boss used to say, use our noggins and common sense. Which really, when you think of it, is this… are sound shock waves harmful? Do they dislodge dirt, and how. What else do they dislodge? Does every user follow the guidelines or do they rush as the USC is a machine for mass cleaning, so rush is implied. If the cycle for de gassing is not followed, then violent eruptions can quadruple the shock effect…

Damage can be subjective, does the fact that “only” engraving wax can be dislodged, or “only” gilting can be removed, or in some cases, jewels damaged, dials and hands etc, or even tin foil reduced to Swiss cheese, does this kind of damage which we know to be true, minimize the harm of using sound shock waves to clean delicate, precise components en mass?
Or is the justification merely convenience and the ability to turn out more clean parts?

As I mention, I use my USC for solid silver or gold chains that would be impossible to clean otherwise, as they are solid, there is no flaking to any plating. Watch cases are another thing that clean up well, as is cutlery 😆 but again, I can achieve the same or better by hand.

Really, my point is to illuminate and share what I have learned, again, I’m speaking about watch parts, gears, jewels etc..
I’m sure that no harm would be done to the large solid brass clock plates, unless they are coated of course 😯 again, this kind of “minimal” damage is accepted, but it is still damage, isn’t it?

[arutha]

A Diamond geezer is a compliment Chris
I am only asking this Chris because I have used and still use ultrasonics and I have not noticed any damage. For the length of time the clock or watch is exposed to the ultrasonics I don’t see any damage and even if there is it is minimal, to me this is outweighed by the cleaning power. If I do find any evidence of it causing problems I will return to this thread and update this post.
In the mean time I will continue to use ultrasonics as I feel it does help speed up the service time.

Bernie, if it works why change it?

I love this forum and the discussions it starts

Paul.

[chris mabbott]

😆 Me too Paul, everyone I know in real life starts to roll their eyes and change the subject to something…. boring whenever I start talking about interesting stuff, go figure 😆

Yes, Cleaners, cleaning fluids, and lube make for a good round of banter, funny how they are passionate subjects

[david pierce]

I think Bob would probably know how long ultrasonic cleaners have been used in the watch industry. I pulled out an old Vigor.Bestfit catalog #107 printed in the 1950s and there was no listing for ultrasonic cleaners. I then looked in catalog #122 from 1975, and ultrasonic cleaners are listed. So they have been used in the watch industry certainly since then. It is possible that these machines were a by product of the space program and may have been developed in the 1960s. A friend of mine owned a dental lab around 1970 and had ultrasonic cleaners in his dental lab.
david

[Bob Tascione]

Not sure on that one David,
They have been around a long time though. Here are some pics of an interesting old cleaner I pulled out of a box I had stashed away. Pretty dirty but should clean up nicely. It’s a McKenna made in Santa Monica, Calif. I’ll google the name to see if anything comes up. If not then maybe the vacuum tubes will give us an idea of age. It’s actually kind of a cool machine now that I’m looking at it. Not sure if it works cuz I’ve been dragging it around with me for many years and never really checked it out. Might be a fun project to go through and clean up. One pic shows it on top of something for Bernie to check out. Had no surface area left in the shop for a pic other than the floor! He should recognize and get a kick out of the monster I’m rebuilding that it’s sitting on.

Bob

[arutha]

Daryn uses an old ultrasonic multi tank watch cleaning machine, the thing that freaks me out about it is the stainless jars, you can’t see what is going on when the parts are flying around in the jar. That is a cool looking machine Bob, you should send it to William for testing, he loves to plug things in that go bang

[chris mabbott]

That’s a cool looking rig Bob, the top photo reminds me of one of the old cook tent stoves that we had in camps, soup in one pot, beef stew in the other and finally, corn in the last one 😆

[cazclocker]

So, Bob, what IS that monster the McKenna ultrasonic is sitting on?
…Doug

[Bob Tascione]

Paul wrote:

the thing that freaks me out about it is the stainless jars, you can’t see what is going on when the parts are flying around in the jar

The McKenna uses uncovered stainless beakers which is probably the predecessor of the shorter, cover stainless canisters used on machines like the Watchmaster Ultrasonic (2 of these machines in background in second pic. above). These canisters were a big improvement over the beakers as they were not deep so parts, and movements could be easily inserted. Also there were stainless baskets and inserts that held movements in place vertically. In the pics below you can see where 6 movements could be placed in the straight slots provided with baskets containing their parts placed in the V shaped slots. Great set up and ultrasonic machine. Only drawback is these machines lack mechanical agitation to help move dirt and old oil out of the parts and movements…still they do a good job.

[arutha]

Do they have lids to keep the smelly solution contained and help stop it evaporating? I like the idea of that machine if you want to send it to me for testing

[Bob Tascione]

Paul,
The Watchmaster cans have stainless lids but not the McKenna. I use the watchmasters so no need for testing them

Bob

[Bob Tascione]

Doug wrote:

So, Bob, what IS that monster the McKenna ultrasonic is sitting on?

Hi Doug,
The monster is an old Heathkit Apache TX-1 Ham radio transmitter weighing in at over 100 lbs. Unrelated to horology but wasn’t going to move it for surface space to take the pic of the McKenna cleaner! Better Pic below.
Bob

[cazclocker]

Wow – I remember Heathkits! That’s quite a beast – I’ll bet it still works…
…Doug

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