Staking set question…

[tmac1956]

All:

I posted this in another long and old thread, so it probably got overlooked. However, if you’ve seen it and choosen not to comment, please just ignore.

I am curious about something however… how much success have you had using a closing punch from the Inverto staking set to reduce a jewel hole size? I have the reprinted manual from the K&D set that give a pretty good description. If I can get the hole diameter down from 3.25mm to +-2.8mm then I can order a replacement jewel from CousinsUK. According to the instructions, one would close the hole from both sides of the plate, and then ream it back out to size – in this example, back to 2.9mm for a 3.0 jewel. I may be asking alot from this operation though.

Thanks
Tom

[Bob Tascione]

Hi Tom,
I dug up your original post and replied to it at http://clockrepairtips.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=778&p=5167#p5167
Enjoy,
Bob

[david pierce]

Tom,
If you can’t find a jewel with a large enough OD couldn’t you turn a bushing (chaton) on your lathe to hold a smaller OD jewel with the correct ID. If the repair is to get the watch working that should work. if the repair is going to be inspected by a museum curator in a watch museum than it would be a different story.
david

[tmac1956]

david:

Yes – I’ve got the bushing ready and I’m just waiting on some jewels that I ordered to come in. I was just curious if anyone had done the closing operation before. I ran across it in my K&D manual and just got curious.

I don’t have any watches worthy of a museum… unless it is a display of watches destroyed by an incompetent watch maker.

Thanks!
Tom

[david pierce]

Tom,
If you have any old broken practice watches press a jewel out of one of them and try out the hole closing punch. Old broken watches are also good to practice pressing jewels in and out.
david

[tmac1956]

David:

I’ll take look but that jewel is really big – 3.00mm. None of my part watches have a jewel that size. However, I do need practice working with friction fit jewels so that sounds like a good idea.

Thanks!
Tom

[david pierce]

Tom,
I have found that it is easy to press them in crooked. One of the few thorough sources of written information on pressing friction jewels I found was in the CHICAGO SCHOOL OF WATCHMAKING course. Most of the other sources must have felt that the process was so simple and obvious that detailed explanations were not necessary. After screwing it up a few times I found out that it was not so simple and obvious.
Another source with some useful information about replacing a jewel in a chaton is the WISCONSON SCHOOL of HOROLOGY- Home Study Course. This was originally written in 1909 and predates the CHICAGO SCHOOL OF WATCHMAKING course in its current form. Their suggestion was to smash the old broken jewel into small pieces with a “small file” (punch) and hammer and then pick the pieces out with tweezers. Once the pieces are removed the opening tool is used to open the bezel just enough to accept the new jewel. The new jewel is then inserted and the bezel is closed with a closing tool. They warn against pressing a jewel out of a chaton in order to avoid damaging the bezel.
david

[tmac1956]

david:

I’ve read almost all of the Chicago School of Watchmaking and with a few exeptions, that is my main reference. I printed that beast out and have it in huge three ring binder in my shop area. I’ve seen the other reference you are talking but I don’ have it – yet. I plan on working with replacing jewels until I can handle most problems. For me, it’s the bigest problem that I’ve come up against. I’m the kind of guy that has to get his head around something before he moves forward. It’s my OCD I suppose.

I have a Seitz set too and it has the spring loaded stakes that are supposed to press jewels in straight. At this point I’m just going to find a smaller jewel with the right size hole and press that into a custom made bushing. Then I’ll press the bushing into the plate. Meanwhile, I’ll look at the resource that Bob gave me for the jewel that will restore it back to the original state.

Thanks again for all of the help and Happy New Year!

Tom

[tmac1956]

@david pierce wrote:

Tom,
I have found that it is easy to press them in crooked. One of the few thorough sources of written information on pressing friction jewels I found was in the CHICAGO SCHOOL OF WATCHMAKING course. Most of the other sources must have felt that the process was so simple and obvious that detailed explanations were not necessary. After screwing it up a few times I found out that it was not so simple and obvious.
Another source with some useful information about replacing a jewel in a chaton is the WISCONSON SCHOOL of HOROLOGY- Home Study Course. This was originally written in 1909 and predates the CHICAGO SCHOOL OF WATCHMAKING course in its current form. Their suggestion was to smash the old broken jewel into small pieces with a “small file” (punch) and hammer and then pick the pieces out with tweezers. Once the pieces are removed the opening tool is used to open the bezel just enough to accept the new jewel. The new jewel is then inserted and the bezel is closed with a closing tool. They warn against pressing a jewel out of a chaton in order to avoid damaging the bezel.
david

david:

Is this the referece that you’re talking about?

http://www.lulu.com/shop/mike-barnett/learn-watch-repair-at-home-with-the-home-study-course-of-the-wisconsin-institute-of-horology/hardcover/product-6346143.html

Thanks!
Tom

[david pierce]

Tom,
Yes, that is the book. Each watch repair book seems to cover certain aspects of watch repair that the others don’t. The one I like the best so far is the CSW but it took awhile to get my knowledge base up to a point where it began to make sense and sink in. Also, there were some wierd looking tools whose purpose was explained only in their course. The reason the point of smashing a jewel apart was pertinent to me was it written at a time when those were the only type of jewels that were put into watches. The concept of pressing in a jewel was not used at that time (1909).
david

[tmac1956]

daivd:

Aren’t those called rubbed in jewels? I’ve run up against those too. I have a set of tools supposedly used to extract them, but honestly… it takes forever with those hand tools to get the jewel out. The idea of pushing the metal off of the jewel and then burnishing it back around the new one just didn’t work for me. I guess I was doing it wrong (as usual).

Thanks!
Tom

[david pierce]

Tom,
According to the WSW those tools are not to be used to extract the jewel. Their purpose is to open up the bezel just enough to fit in the new jewel and then close the bezel around the new jewel once it has been pushed into place. The extraction is done by smashing up the old broken jewel and picking the pieces out. Their emphisis was on not damaging the setting. The jewel is ruined anyway which is why it has to be replaced.
david

[tmac1956]

david:

Hmmm… I think I need that course!

Thanks!
Tom

[david pierce]

Tom,
If you have a copy of PRACTICAL BENCHWORK FOR HOROLOGISTS by Louis and Samuel Levin, check out the section on page 184 called Setting Jewels by Burnishing. It covers a tool for making jewel settings called a SWING TAILSTOCK.
david

[tmac1956]

daivd:

I have that book and I’ll take a look at that section. I got it from Uncle Larry’s a few months ago and I haven’t had a chance to do much more than lightly review it. – I.e. just looking at the pictures.

Thanks and Happy New Year!
Tom

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