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February 4, 2014 at 10:15 pm #48852
Ok, to start with ive been reading all the posts on all the lathes for watch making. The problem is all my experience is on metal lathes, ive never used a wood lathe,,,the 8 mm lathes look nice, but what has been catching my eye are the sherline and the taig. Now for some reason the taig seems right up my alley, im mainly only interested in working on vintage pocket watches,,,mabey a mantle clock,,the taig looks like it would handle all my needs, can anyone think of any reason it wouldnt? Oh and this will be down the road some, just working up my wish list.February 5, 2014 at 9:27 am #55641aruthaParticipant
The first thing you must do is decide what you need to do, that will in turn help you decide what type of lathe to go for. A watchmakers lathe is essential if you are going to be cutting your own balance staffs and as far as I am aware it would be very difficult to attempt this on a taig type lathe. If however you are looking at tool making then a watchmakers lathe might not be quite big enough. A lot of watchmakers have a watchmakers lathe and a bigger “hobby” lathe. Just something else for you to think about
Paul.February 6, 2014 at 6:47 am #55642
Paul is spot on with his post. Watch and clock making is not much different than other machine shop issues in that there is no one machine that is going to be a solution for all machining problems. My recomendation is still the Sincere Lathe for watch parts because the equipment is very good, it is new, accessories are available, and the stuff is currently affordable. When you go with the older machines you will find that obtaining accessories can be spotty and expensive. There are a number of older watch lathes out there that have tailstocks that don’t line up with the head stocks. The Sincere comes with a collet holding lever tailstock and it lines up. The cross slide works perfectly. The milling attachment is still less than $300.00 and it works perfectly. They offer a conversion kit to turn the lathe into a precision drill press at a low cost. If later on you want to make larger parts you can always buy a larger machine. I also have a TAIG and I like it as well. It can take a lot more abuse than a smaller more delicate lathe and it has a lot more power, but it is also a bigger machine than the Sincere.
davidFebruary 7, 2014 at 7:56 pm #55643
Im gathering from the responces that the taig is bigger than i thought,,its hard to tell by the pictures, are you saying the sincere is a smaller lathe and would do pocket watch balances ok? Again,,im a metal lathe guy so i would prefer to start with a cross slide rather than a tool post to start with,, but im not afraid to try the hand method at some point.
Also were do i fing these sincer lathes,,,ive searched them with no resultsFebruary 7, 2014 at 8:17 pm #55644
The SINCERE is a smaller less powerful machine but size is not the entire story. The design of the SINCERE evolved from Turns which were the original watch lathes. If you go to the Otto Frei web page you can see a BERGEON which is of a similar design but is made in Switzerland. When you check out the price of the BERGEON you can appreciate what a bargin the SINCERE lathe is.
Both the TAIG and the SINCERE come with cross slides. The SINCERE is perfect for pocket watch sizes all the way down to ladies watch sizes. A pocket watch pivot is still only .004 inches in diameter an while it may be possible to turn something that small on a TAIG or SHERLINE the job is much easier on the SINCERE. The SINCERE is a watch lathe and everything about the machine is geared up to make small parts out of small pieces of metal with small cuts. The SINCERE is a Geneva style lathe and is not made to take heavy cuts on a large piece of metal. If you wanted to turn a 1/4 inch piece of steel down to 1/8 of an inch the TAIG or a larger machine would be a better choice. The TAIG is very sturdy and can be pushed. If, on the other hand, if you wanted to turn a .004 diameter pivot on a `1/32 diameter shaft the SINCERE is designed to do that task. It is difficult to comprehend how small watch parts are until you start pulling them apart and look at the parts under magnification.
davidFebruary 7, 2014 at 10:21 pm #55645
Thanks dave, the sincer sounds like the one then, but im still having a hard time finding them, is there a web site?February 8, 2014 at 6:16 am #55646
Sincere should have a site on Ebay under WATCHMAKER LATHES. When I bought mine a few years ago it came with a cross slide and collet holding drilling tailstock for $450.00. The price has gone up since then but it is still a bargin.
davidFebruary 8, 2014 at 6:45 am #55647
A question I have on the sincere lathe. Will it take/hold the Boley collets? I would not mind getting one if it will use the Boley collets. I really would not need a cross slide as I would rather do my turning by hand so that would be a expense I wouldn’t have. I have a Boley lathe with a complete compliment of collets, 3 jaw chuck, 3 different tailstocks and several jigs I have made. Wouldn’t mind getting a second one for polishing pivots and leave the Boley set up for making parts.February 9, 2014 at 5:29 pm #55648
I never had a BOLEY collet but I do have a few BOLEY lathes. Mine take the standard Starrett collets and work fine with them. The nice thing about the Sincere lathe is it comes standard with a cross slide and lever operated collet holding tailstock. The graver rest is purchased as an accessory. I do not know if there would be any advantage over the machine you already have if you are only going to use a graver. When I bought mine a few years ago the drawtubes would not fit the standard WW collet threads and I had to run a tap through them to get them to work. I believe now you can purchase the Sincere lathes with either the metric drawtubes or the American standard. In any case it was not a major problem.
davidFebruary 9, 2014 at 8:52 pm #55649
Ok, i may have just jumped the gun here, but after watch the first lathe video i can see the value of hand turning, and i think i found a good clean up special lathe, its an American Watch Tool lathe,,using 8mm ww collets,,,it looks the same as the peerless lathes and he says wverything is tight, just dirty. Unless i hear anything bad about it, ill probly be ordering it soon.February 9, 2014 at 9:38 pm #55650
It is hard to go wrong with almost any watchmaker lathe unless it takes unusual collets that cannot be obtained. These machines always are in demand and have a good resale value should you decide to switch at a later date.
If you go to YOUTUBE and watch PERPLXR BALANCE COMPLETE TRILOGY-2 you can see a pivot being made on a lathe similar to the SINCERE.
davidFebruary 14, 2014 at 9:14 pm #55651
Thanks for the info David. How will the sincere stand up for clock work? I do some watches but mostly clocks. Also will I be able to use my boley collets on a peerless lathe. I have a lead on one that is is great shape. It is complete with headstock, tilt over rest and tailstock. If not I may hold off for a boley. Thanks again.
BernieFebruary 14, 2014 at 9:56 pm #55652
The SINCERE is a Geneva style lathe just like the Wolf Jahn, Lorch, Bergeon and I think Boley also made them. For extremely small parts they are hard to beat. The American WW design can do small watch parts and larger clock parts because they are bigger, stronger and can take heavier cuts without the machine deflecting. As far as which lathe is better, the Peerless or the Boley? I am not a designer label guy so I don’t look at machinery that way. Both the Peerless and the Boley use cone bushings in the headstock so the spindle runout will be the same in both machines that are set up and adjusted the same, and are in the same condition. I have several of both and once I took them apart, cleaned them out, oiled them and adjusted the spindle tension, both perfofmed the same way. I use a Boley more but only because it was within reach when I grabbed a lathe off the shelf.
When I bought my Sincere I also heard all of the designer label crap about “cheap Chinese junk” and so on. After I set it up and ran it I found out that it was a fantastic machine. What really makes it a wise choice for making watch parts, in my view is, all of the accessories are available and affordable. They also work great and do what they are supposed to do. The lever operated collet holding tailstock is dead on center. The finish on a part that is turned looks like it came off of a high precision grinder. I am happy with mine. It can do everything that can be done on a Bergeon Geneva lathe (I have one of those as well) at a far lower cost.
davidFebruary 15, 2014 at 6:29 am #55653
One more issue to consider as well. All watchmaker lathes use 8mm WW collets. These collets are the best choice for small parts but do not hold as well as the ER collets. WW collets also do not have the contraction properties that the ER collets have so ER collets may be a better choice for the larger parts. When the WW machines were designed the ER collets had not been invented yet. This is just something to think about when selecting a particular machine for a particular job. Another thing to think about is what are the watch manufacturing companies using today to make watch parts. I guarantee you that they are not using 19th century lathes and collets to manufacture their parts.
davidFebruary 15, 2014 at 8:15 am #55654
Thanks David. A lot of food for thought. I am guessing you are saying then that the collets that fit my Boley will also fit the peerless? I have almost a full compliment of boley collets and accessories. I just didn’t want to have to buy another whole set collets or accessories. Really don’t need one but would like to have a couple of lathes setup for the work I do without having to tear down and set back up again. Just a lazy thought in my old age. 😆
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