Seth Thomas #2

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  • #49514
    bernie weishapl
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 58
    • Total Posts: 1218

    I had a ST #2 come into the shop about 3 weeks ago. Decided yesterday to dive into it Monday. He said it had been to 3 other places before me. He brought it in to me in pieces all loose inside the case. Pendulum, weight, movement, dial, etc all loose. Took the unit down and started repairs. First thing I noticed was the escape wheel had several bent teeth like 8 of the 40. Straightened out the teeth and of course some were longer than others so stuck it in the lathe and topped it slightly. I should have looked at the EW closer as now I think it had been topped before and I could see file marks on the teeth. I wondered why they looked so thin. Anyway cleaned, reassembled, and oiled. It would not run and pallets kept catching on the EW teeth. So I checked the space between the teeth and sure enough there was a big difference. So how do I do that when I don’t think any of the teeth are the correct angle? That is the question. I found a EW for a #2 from Timesavers. It should be here next week. So the last couple of days have been frustrating to say the least. I would like to find a arbor with the wheel attach but thinking that will be like finding a needle in a haystack. So if anyone has a EW complete for a ST #2 laying around let me know. I am attaching a couple of pictures to show what I am dealing with.

    #62201
    willofiam
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 75
    • Total Posts: 1437

    Hey Bernie, something does look awry in your photos. The # of teeth that should be “embraced” in a dead beat is # of whole teeth spaces plus 1/2 space, hard to see for sure but to me it looks like your a bit bigger than that and at the same time it also looks like your way too deep with the lock.

    @Bernie Weishapl wrote:

    So how do I do that when I don’t think any of the teeth are the correct angle?

    good question, the leading edge of the undercut should be 6 degrees from a radial line center of wheel to the leading tooth tip, the tooth is a 12 degree included angle. Question is how to measure that, I have used a plethora of things to accomplish that in the past I guess without knowing whats in your shop you will have to be creative. Once you get a few in the right spot you can use rodico or something similar to make a imprint and match up the rest.

    Sounds like your having some fun Bernie, believe me….I am too. William

    #62202
    Bob Tascione
    Moderator
    • Topics Started: 38
    • Total Posts: 1559

    I agree with both of you. Something doesn’t look right. 😯 :D That pallet looks like it was added later and is pretty rough or possibly unfinished in the photo. If it’s just me and the pallet dimensions and angles are correct then the depth is definitely way out of line. Is it possible that one or both pallet arbor pivot/pivots is bent upward? Can’t tell from looking at the pic. Don’t recall what depth adjustments if any the #2 has. Does look like the arbor has a trace of blue oxide left from tempering sometime in the past which might indicate some work being done in that area? Anyway just guessing here.
    Having that new wheel may shed some more light on the problem. Especially if that wheel has been reduced a lot more than we suspect.
    Good luck Bernie and please let us know what you find out,
    Bob
    edit: I forgot to mention. Those 8 teeth that were damaged may be the reason for the 15 sec. or so of dropping out of beat (read that it was dropping out of beat from 15 to 18 seconds in your post on another forum ;) ) 8 teeth would represent about that much time when taking into account the amount of time needed for the escapement to recover? You mentioned that the clearance was different between teeth so possibly the problem. The 6 degree locking face back cut from tip to root might be difficult to measure as William said but probably not too difficult to find the angle most common to the 40 teeth just by eyeballing them and see if others deviate much from that angle. Have a feeling that ordering that new escape wheel was a good move Bernie.

    #62203
    stevefitzwater
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 48
    • Total Posts: 385

    Apprentice weighing in here,

    But I just worked on a Seth Thomas 120L, and the pallet does not look like the correct one, like I prefaced my post, I am a lowly apprentice…

    I am wondering if one of the previous stops the clock made, the pallet was replaced, from the angle of the pictures there is no wear, the entry angle is incorrect and even if the teeth are at the wrong angle, the pallet still looks like it has to long of a span to match up with the EW.

    Just tossing in a view from a different perspective..

    #62204
    bernie weishapl
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 58
    • Total Posts: 1218

    The pallets are original to the clock. It just looks like there are plier marks on them. Once I figure out where I stand I will polish them out and hopefully get rid of those marks. The wheel is what has me concerned as you can see the file marks and plier marks all over it. So it has had some rough treatment. I am still looking at it but have to get other clocks done so this will have to sit a day or two. I got a Kieninger tore down, cleaned and the plates with gears back together. I will get the rest of it put together tomorrow and on the test stand. Then I have a triple chime hermle and a old tall case to get done. So will look at it as I have time. Not going to do much till the new wheel gets in. I don’t want to adjust the pallets in any way till I know where I stand for sure.

    Thanks for the suggestions and help. Will keep you up to date when and if I find something.

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bernie weishaplSeth Thomas #2