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May 16, 2014 at 10:00 am #49057
Hey guys, have not received the motor back yet but I will be sure to post what they have done to it. I thought I would put up some info in a new thread. To start with I am wondering about the cutting coolant fluid, in the original manual it shows types of cutting coolants as the picture shows. I see neatsfoot oil, would that work, I think it is a leather treatment. Any recommendations on up to date coolant I could use in this for hardened steel? thanks and have a great day, WilliamMay 16, 2014 at 8:57 pm #57829
How does this machine actually remove metal, grinding, cutting, milling, sanding etc.?
davidMay 16, 2014 at 10:47 pm #57830chris mabbottParticipant
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William I’m not exactly sure what material your grinding wheel is made of BUT, I know in machine shops where they use creep grinding, or for that matter on any fixed grinder application on a large scale, they use a water soluble oil mixture. I think, but I’m not 100% on that.
Sol-U or some kind of synthetic coolant is used, apparently it doesn’t,t clog the stones and it evaporated as its a soluble mixture.
Your goal here, in material removal via grinding, is to remove the heat, not to lubricate so much, and whereas water alone has a tendency to evaporate quickly at higher temps, the soluble mix doesn’t’t.
If your wheel is of the carbon steel type, then possibly lubrication would be required as it is steel on steel and not silicone carbide, for example, on steel, which would cause more friction heat.
Like David has mentioned, it depends on what, how much and speed of the process. I would think that the manual recommendation would be the correct choice as the designers should know through trial.
You can only try the recommended lube and do a few test pieces to see how it goes. I mean you’re not doing anything huge, I think you’re talking about pivots etc?
You can google the various grinding fluids, do some testing and notice the finish quality, if you have a digital temp gun you can note down the temps because cooling is also important, you don’t want to blue your pivots LOLMay 17, 2014 at 6:44 am #57831
So this is a grinding machine? I have never seen on of these so I do not know how it removes the metal. If a particular lubricant was recommended by the manufacturer it was probably found through painful trial and error and will work well. Go with what they remommend first if possible. If not call the techinical departments of companies who make grinding lubricants and see if they can cross referance the product.
davidMay 17, 2014 at 7:15 am #57832
Howdy, I will be putting up some completed pictures soon,(I hope) David, this has a headstock that accepts 8mm collets which turns one direction
a tail-stock with a semicircular notched workpiece support disk made out of tungsten carbide steel
and a rocker arm that you manually lower with a tungsten carbide polishing disk that turns in the opposite direction of the tail-stock to polish the pivot
. there were also ceramic cutting wheels that were available. with a tail-stock adjustment vertically of .0004″ per division on the graduated scale, lower the rocker arm and apply the spinning tungsten carbide disk onto the spinning workpiece which grinds? mills? cuts? the pivot to size, micro polishes and burnishes? your pivots. there is a pump that operates mechanically as the machine is running, a hose comes up from the base and thru the shield applying fluid and onto the cutting/ polishing wheel. I really dont think it is critical as to finding the exact type of fluid, anything that would be comparable to the recommended for hard steel, I may be wrong about that. David as I was writing this I saw your post about trial and error for the fluid, I looked for the specific types the manual recommends and so far have come up empty handed, it is interesting though that the manual has neatsfoot oil printed in there. WilliamMay 17, 2014 at 11:06 pm #57833
It appears that Neatsfoot oil is oil made from animal (pig and cow) fat. I think that was also called Lard Oil. Lard Oil was a component in some of the machine coolants we used to use for the high production machines. At some point the stuff would turn rancid and boy did it stink. See if you can find another oil that will work in your machine or a few months down the road it may run you out of the house.
davidMay 18, 2014 at 6:45 am #57834tmac1956Participant
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“Where does he get all of those wonderful toys?” The Joker…May 18, 2014 at 6:55 am #57835tmac1956Participant
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Going from what David said, I found the following:
“Moebius 8000 is actually a natural oil, specifically a mixture of mineral oil and neatsfoot oil (from cow’s feet) and is essentially the natural oil equivalent of their synthetic version 9010. The chart below gives their basic recommendations.
To be complete, since it may not be entirely natural, their MSDS states it is composed of paraffinic hydrocarbons with natural esters (neatsfoot oil) with the additives 1.3% 2,6-di-tert-butyl-4-methylphenole, <1% p,p-dioctyldiphenylamine barium sulfonate-mixture, and 1% polyacrylate (viscosity improver)."
So, it looks like you could use Mobius 9010 as a substitute. However, I have also seen in one of the previous NAWCC issues (I cannot remember which) where the author of the article did a viscosity comparison and came to the conclusion that certain motor oils work just as well as some of the expensive Mobius synthetics.
Good luck with the project – please keep us up to date.
TomMay 18, 2014 at 7:17 am #57836darynParticipant
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think it’s more of a burnishing action than grinding, therefore wintergreen oil is often used , clears your sinuses too !May 18, 2014 at 10:23 am #57837
Chris commented in a previous post that he opened up a watch and it smelled like it came out of a coffin (rotton flesh smell). That must be the decomposition of the oil made from animal products. The modern synthetic oils are made from plant oils and resist breaking down better than the animal based oils. I suspect that some of the chemicals mentioned in Tom’s post were put in the oil to keep it from rotting.
davidMay 18, 2014 at 8:34 pm #57838demewillParticipant
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Congratulations on finding and rescuing a fine old machine.
Do you know the capacity of the sump on this machine. From your description, I suspect it is a few quarts. Mobile Velocite No.10 is one of my favorite oils. It is labeled Spindle oil, however it is a 5 weight non-detergent oil.
I use this any time I need a good lightweight oil. e.g. On the bearings of my watchmakers lathe. Makes a nice honing oil also. Purchase from McMaster Carr for about $28.00 for a 1 gallon container. Automatic transmission fluid may be a good choice also.
DanMay 19, 2014 at 10:51 am #57839chris mabbottParticipant
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William, as an interesting addition to David comment, I just happened to be going through DeCarles Timing & Springing bible and on pg 14 he mentions Neats foot oil as one of the lubricants for watches and also cites the same as David said, that it tends to oxidize PDQ causing that god awful smell..
I think that if you can find a water soluble synthetic/mineral oil used for grinding, you’ll be good to go..May 19, 2014 at 4:10 pm #57840
Hey guys, Chris, would not be good for public relations to get any more smelly things in the shop besides me :lol:,
Dan I will take your advice and get some of that Mobile velocity No.10, for the tiny bit of polishing I am sure it will work just fine. the sump is definitely less than a gallon, I can use the extra on the watchmakers lathes as you suggest,
David, that same thought came to me about Chris’s watch. WilliamMay 21, 2014 at 3:13 pm #57841
Is the Mobile Velocite different from general hydraulic oil? it looks like good stuff.
davidJune 4, 2014 at 4:01 pm #57842
I thought I should hire Chris to do the demo photo essay, I would do one on this machine but I am way to tired today, here are a couple of photos of it finished. I also talked with a very nice gentleman in NY. He said he worked at Hauser and had also went on to work at a place that refurbished these, the one I have had gone thru the shop he worked at. His business is Richlin Machines, he has a bunch of machinery and lathes that came from Bulova, He is the guy selling the Hauser pivot polisher on ebay, if you go there then you can see some of the items he is selling. I think this polisher/ burnisher will work very well, some practice with it to get quick at it and it will serve me well. William
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