MS Bind

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  • #49241
    chris mabbott
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    I’ve just come across two problems that were slowing down an Illinois 16s I’ve been working on..

    I’d cleaned the parts prior to going away for a week, when I came back, I put it together, I checked the train, installed the balance without it’s hardware, all good..

    When I finally got it back together, the oscillation was slow, I went through the system with the 10x, upon full wind, it ran nicely for about ten turns, then gradually slowed to a halt 😥

    I really hate to keep taking these things apart after I carefully inspect and reassemble WTF 😆
    So grudgingly, and with a great sense of inconvenience, I removed the balance, went through the train blah blah..
    Damn it! I have to remove the pallet fork 👿
    The weather in this part of earth has been unbearably humid this year, so I’m sweating, my loupe is constantly fogging up, like every 30 seconds, the wheels on my chair are also sticking, and there is a fly that is giving me grief 🙄

    So, instead of removing the bridge that hold the train, I decide, in a fit of laziness, that it MUST be the mainspring 💡
    I remove the barrel and as I take off the top plate of the movement, the MS gives a slight unwind? That’s odd, I know I let the power off.
    Anyway, I pop the lid.. look inside and wonder.. Did I clean this :?:

    #59585
    chris mabbott
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    With going away for a week, I’d forgotten, but it looked kinda dirty, so I pop out the MS, Hmm, it’s as weak as a kitten. I plop the barrel into the cleaning solution and when I removed it, I see deep lines cut into the bottom of the barrel?

    The anchor hole for the T is also elongated and there is an indentation just ahead of it that shows on the underside.. 😮

    #59586
    chris mabbott
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    First things first, I put the barrel in my staking tool and using a wooden punch, I take out the dent from the underside where it looks like the T has slipped out of the anchor hole and jammed itself into this position.

    Then, using a steel punch, I try to reduce the elongated anchor hole back to its original size. This worked out well, then all I had to do was run a small burnisher through the new hole to smooth it out.

    Some people like to use the lathe to smooth up a rough area, possibly running a slight pass with a bit to touch it up.
    These gouges were pretty deep, and there isn’t too much meat on the bottom to play with, so I fashioned a peg of hard wood into a semicircular form and decided to try and sand it smooth.

    #59587
    chris mabbott
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    Using 400 grit emery strips, I carefully sanded away material from the bottom and sides where there were gouges from the T slipping and sliding and causing all kinds of chaos 😡

    The result from the 400 treatment was good, but obviously not smooth. The main thing was that the circular gouge marks, that were actually holding the MS and preventing full power to be transmitted, were now reduced by at least 97.567% 😆

    #59588
    chris mabbott
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    Using 1200 grit, I smoothed away the slight high spots and sanding marks. Although in the pic it doesn’t show too well, but it’s nice and smooth, but not 100%

    I may have dreamed it, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the bottom of the barrel should not be smooth smooth, as in mirror shiny. There are supposed to be very slight concentric lines running through from center to outer. For the lubricating film to stay in place and not be wiped away by the action of the spring.
    If I’m living in my own dream world on this, someone please HELP ME :D

    Here it is all touched up proudly posing alongside its new spring engine, just waiting to run this watch for another ten years 8-)

    #59589
    chris mabbott
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    I’m happy to report that when I reinstalled the MS barrel, the balance took off after the third wind. Although it was 80% better than before, there was still another problem elsewhere, which was a slightly binding 3rd wheel caused by, I believe, a small bend in the arm, next to the jewel. This is actually a common thing as this part is used as a pushing/holding area and can be easily forced out of shape. I should have known to check it, but we always hope for the best 🙄

    Anyway, the MS barrel was the main cause of power loss, which shows how a few gouges and forgetting to check, can cause an issue that leaves you scratching your head and looking everywhere but….there 😆

    This Burlington special has had a major overhaul, the winding gear assembly, winding arbor, change gear pressure spring, balance staff, 2 jewels, new mainspring and barrel repair, an adjustment of the 3rd wheel mounting to compensate for a bent plate arm, new hands, new crystal and a new dial to replace the ugly 1920s paper type that was obviously a replacement..

    Now she ticks :D

    #59590
    bernie weishapl
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    • Topics Started: 58
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    Great post Chris. I had something similar happen in a Elgin 17 j. I used a graver with the lathe to take off the high points then used 1000 and 1200 grit to smooth it somewhat as I had been told by my mentor also that it shouldn’t be smooth as a baby’s bottom. 😆 I was surprised at how much that would drain the power that much but it did. Good post Chris because for those new to watch repair it is probably something that is overlooked.

    #59591
    chris mabbott
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    Thanks for the confirmation Bernie, I had a nightmare that I’d have to pull this apart yet AGAIN to polish the bottom 😆

    I agree, the best way to touch these up is by using the lathe/graver and I would have loved to do it that way as the sanding took a long time :?
    This watch had one of those barrels that felt like it was made of tin foil, you know the kind, not substantial, like a bottle cap, as opposed to those nice weighty brass ones. I suppose it was a cost/weight factor that they used lightweight barrels.

    I’ve left it running through the night and I’m happy to report good performance so far as its achieving, what looks to the eye, as full oscillation.
    My correct replacement dial should be here next week, something I was lucky to find as a friend happened to have one that he had changed on his Burlington special, to a better one, even his microscopically damaged dial is a vast improvement over the awful paper model that was on it before.
    So really, this bloody watch still isn’t done, I guess it’s a career job 😆

    #59592
    arutha
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    I dont get foggy loupes after Daryn showed me a neat trick!

    Just drill a series of holes around the bottom of your loupe :)

    #59593
    chris mabbott
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    Thanks Paul, I tried that on my old ones but I found I had light coming inside the loupe which was distracting and It still fogged up 😆

    I’ve finally ordered anti fog spray which is a non destructive method, can’t bring myself to drill my horotec aplantic loupes. 😮

    #59594
    namonllor1953
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    • Topics Started: 21
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    Say Chris,
    Thanks a bunch for this post/thread. As a new guy to this wonderful world, I really appreciate the lesson on “how to” do something. The pictures always help and the replies make great food for thought.

    thanks again,
    Ren

    #59595
    arutha
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    @Chris Mabbott wrote:

    Thanks Paul, I tried that on my old ones but I found I had light coming inside the loupe which was distracting and It still fogged up 😆

    I’ve finally ordered anti fog spray which is a non destructive method, can’t bring myself to drill my horotec aplantic loupes. 😮

    We used to use a similar thing on VW Beetle windscreens, they would fog up when it was cold, when it was hot, when it was mild, when we were in the car, when we were not in the car, probably would have been easier just to buy goggles and kick the screen out :)
    Paul.

    #59596
    chris mabbott
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    @Arutha wrote:

    We used to use a similar thing on VW Beetle windscreens Paul.

    Wot, drillin oles in the windshield, bit drastic init 😆 (said in my best cockney accent ;) )

    @namonllor1953 wrote:

    Say Chris,
    Thanks a bunch for this post/thread. As a new guy to this wonderful world, I really appreciate the lesson on “how to” do something. The pictures always help and the replies make great food for thought.

    thanks again,
    Ren

    You’re welcome Ren.
    This is one of those basic things that I should have done in auto mode but ya know, with forgetting it cost me extra time and fiddling around, then when I found it I felt like a dumb ass for missing it 😆

    #59597
    chris mabbott
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    AT LAST, after a long time, I’ve just about got this watch finished, enough so to show the 98% completed project :P

    This watch has fought me at every turn, absolutely NOTHING was easy, even the replacement case that I finished today was a pain, I had to modify in order to get a correct fit. Even the NOS dial was a problem 😆 One of those where you either laugh at the irony, or smash it into a hundred pieces.

    So just to recap…This was a movement that was scrap, I saved it from it’s fate of…whatever, the parts man, because it’s an important historical timekeeper, to me. Although I’m not a big fan of Burlington – Burlington/Illinois, I do respect their 19j models, like this one, the Burlington Special..
    It came to me in a modded OF case, with an awful paper replacement dial that the previous owner had put on because they didn’t have an original dial.
    These BS dials are super hard to find, they are either completely trashed or nonexistent. So I was very lucky to acquire this partially chipped NOS from a mate O mine :)
    The replacement hunter case was one that I had in stock that was also in bad shape, I’ve spent the last two days restoring it, now I’m waiting for a crystal..

    It’s running good so far and seems to be spot on time wise over the last few hours. I’ll make positional checks over the next days..

    So here is how it was, with the incorrect 1920’s replacement dial and case..

    #59598
    chris mabbott
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    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    Here it is now restored back to its original 1908 state.. :D

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chris mabbottMS Bind