Lord Elgin 21 J 556 USA issues ( Mens Wristwatch.)

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  • #48826
    ewinrow
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    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    I have been playing with this watch for the last three days and still nothing. 👿 Jewels are good and not cracked, winds-up, cleaned several times and serviced by me.(Limited Experience,) and still nothing. Original bridge popped out of my tweezers upon changing hairspring. (Lost! 👿 ) Looking for probable problem solving from the general discussion form 1st and foremost. Bout ready to send it to another watchmaker, but why work outside of the realm of possibility within the group? Here are where the professionals bed down. 😡 …..




    #55435
    randy
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 39
    • Total Posts: 594

    Hard to tell from the pics but your Hairspring looks all “stacked up”in the photos.
    Can you tell us more?
    Do you get any movement at all ?
    Does the balance move on it’s own when you coax it to start ?
    When you wind it,..do you hear noise ?

    Need to know more to help isolate this..but I’l share this for starters.

    Let down the mainspring
    Take the balance and pallet fork out.
    Wind the watch a few turns.
    If the gear train runs, more than likely you have a problem in the escapement ( pallet fork/balance assy ).
    If nothing moves,.. take out the mainspring and check that the gear teeth all mesh properly, and move freely on their own.
    Just keep eliminating issues one section at a time.,

    Tell us more ?

    Randy

    #55436
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    This is a very enerving problem, just because you have to keep assembling and disassembling the damn thing 👿

    Randy has hit the nail on the head, you just have to start from the power source and work your way forward.
    When this happens to me it’s usually either a pallet jewel, a banking issue, or a balance problem.

    As Randy states, test the train then let us know where the “jam” is and we can go from there.

    What you could also try is mount the balance/fork/escape without the train gears and test their movement independently

    Just remember the golden rules Ed

    1. Don’t throw it against the wall
    2. Stay calm
    3. Walk away and come back to it … Later

    😆

    Ill be looking forward to hearing your result, please keep us updated…

    Chris

    #55437
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    Good morn fellas, I stayed up most of the night fiddling and fumbling with this nightmare. Pulled entire train apart and winding clutch assy. checked mainspring teeth not spring. all looked good. winds fine train responds, pallet fork on point, different bridge, different hairspring and balance wheel. When placed, very stiff and very little movement at all. when rotated NOTHING 👿 .Now after reading your comments, after I get back in today I will check it again per your input. OK Chris I won’t throw it against the wall.”BUT” I have thought about hanging it on my tree just to see if I can hit dead center at 10 paces with my 1911 Springfield armory 45 cal. Maybe you guys saved it, we’ll see. 😡 .
    PS, best pics I could get. Hope their of some help.



    #55438
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    @Randy wrote:

    Hard to tell from the pics but your Hairspring looks all “stacked up”in the photos.
    Can you tell us more?
    Do you get any movement at all ?
    Does the balance move on it’s own when you coax it to start ?
    When you wind it,..do you hear noise ?

    Need to know more to help isolate this..but I’l share this for starters.

    Let down the mainspring
    Take the balance and pallet fork out.
    Wind the watch a few turns.
    If the gear train runs, more than likely you have a problem in the escapement ( pallet fork/balance assy ).
    If nothing moves,.. take out the mainspring and check that the gear teeth all mesh properly, and move freely on their own.
    Just keep eliminating issues one section at a time.,

    Tell us more ?

    Randy

    Will do Randy. Thanks…… Ed.

    #55439
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    @Chris Mabbott wrote:

    This is a very enerving problem, just because you have to keep assembling and disassembling the damn thing 👿

    Randy has hit the nail on the head, you just have to start from the power source and work your way forward.
    When this happens to me it’s usually either a pallet jewel, a banking issue, or a balance problem.

    As Randy states, test the train then let us know where the “jam” is and we can go from there.

    What you could also try is mount the balance/fork/escape without the train gears and test their movement independently

    Just remember the golden rules Ed

    1. Don’t throw it against the wall
    2. Stay calm
    3. Walk away and come back to it … Later

    😆

    Ill be looking forward to hearing your result, please keep us updated…

    Chris

    Got cha bro…… Ed. Oh, if you hear shooting, it’s just me and my Elgin 😈 ……

    #55440
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    Ed, for a target that small I think the photography rules of good light, good focus and a tripod are needed 😆

    If you follow Randy’s sound advice you should find the problem and we can go from there. Remote diagnosis is always tricky, if only you lived closer to Spain I could just pop over, we may not get much done but.. :D

    This type of problem is a pain in the butt, especially on these little guys. When I get fed up, I walk away, the next day I’m itching to get back to it lol

    Chris

    #55441
    randy
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 39
    • Total Posts: 594

    Ed, If you say the train works fine, but the watch won’t run once you’ve added the pallet fork and balance…more than likely you have it somewhat isolated.
    Take the balance off,..but leave the pallet fork in and put a few winds on the mainspring. Then see if you can get the pallet fork to pop back and forth with a light touch from a pegwood stick or oiler. If you can’t it could be the pallet jewels that are causing the binding.
    If it will move easily, then add the balance , and see if it will run at all.
    If it does, then start running the balance cock screw down slowly to see if it stops.
    If it does, now you know that it’s in that assembly somewhere.
    Bent balance cock, cracked jewel, bent staff, bad roller jewel etc,etc.

    BTW..not knowing your level of experience,..are you sure that you are indexing the roller jewel into the horns of the pallet fork as you are putting the balance in place ?
    If that’s not indexed correctly, it will bind the roller table against the fork and you will get a full lockup of the action.

    Let us know what else you figure out !

    Randy

    #55442
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    I have been narrowing this issue down very methodically, and have narrowing it down. out of 3, complete bridge assembly’s from extra watches I have two have broken bottom arbors and the 3rd looks to be in decent/better shape. will give it a try. Inspected all jewels throughout watch under microscope and all good. looking for new/used balance and shaft assembly’s, But no luck Anybody have any input on locations?




    #55443
    randy
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 39
    • Total Posts: 594

    I’d look for a “donor”watch on Ebay that had a good balance….unless oneof us has one of these laying around…

    #55444
    david pierce
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 90
    • Total Posts: 1360

    Ed,
    Have you tried the antique parts suppliers such as Dashto, Cas-Ker, Dave’s watch supplies, Cousins UK. Maby some of the other members can add to the list. You can poke around on their web sites and see what they have. Uncle Larry also has these type of parts for sale on his clearance page. Take a look.
    david

    #55445
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    @david pierce wrote:

    Ed,
    Have you tried the antique parts suppliers such as Dashto, Cas-Ker, Dave’s watch supplies, Cousins UK. Maby some of the other members can add to the list. You can poke around on their web sites and see what they have. Uncle Larry also has these type of parts for sale on his clearance page. Take a look.
    david

    Looking into now. Thanks.

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ewinrowLord Elgin 21 J 556 USA issues ( Mens Wristwatch.)