Lathe Debate Is Over

[tukat44]

I for one happen to LOVE hot pink, especially when she wears it and I know it is for me, so I think you have done a good thing Chris. And Paul, I was thinking Jacot tool and Turns would be a good exercise in learning, and someone said they can turn up a staff correctly first time on the turns, I imagine it just takes patience and practice. for centuries, this is the means they had to do repairs from a piece of metal rod.

Polishing pivots can be done on a lathe, but aren’t the turns and Jacot tool very easy to get set up? I could get eight lathes, milling machines, micro drill press, etc. Not sure I need all that equipment. Not sure I don’t either. trying to figure out how to mount my dremel to a bench and use it for the time being….

And Bernie, Thanks for all your insight

And Bob, thanks for making the forum available to me. I take away good stuff every time I visit, which is every day.

Thanks to all. My Journey Continues….

Tukat

[maitai11]

Yeah, I always try to lure the girls in by showing them my power tools hahaha. Actually, many seem to love the clock.

For those who may not know, I acquired the family’s 100 year old Waterbury No. 72 Hall Clock, which stands 8’4″ tall, a beautiful example of craftsmanship of old. I’ll post a few pics soon. Gotta try and find the one’s I had on my other computer, which is currently down.

Joe, it’d be nice to see some pics of the clock you’re working on…if you need help, I’m here, brother

Best,

Tim

[arutha]

@tukat44 wrote:

And Paul, I was thinking Jacot tool and Turns would be a good exercise in learning, and someone said they can turn up a staff correctly first time on the turns, I imagine it just takes patience and practice. for centuries, this is the means they had to do repairs from a piece of metal rod.

Polishing pivots can be done on a lathe, but aren’t the turns and Jacot tool very easy to get set up? I could get eight lathes, milling machines, micro drill press, etc. Not sure I need all that equipment. Not sure I don’t either. trying to figure out how to mount my dremel to a bench and use it for the time being….

Tukat

Yes you can turn up a balance staff on the turns and that is exactly how they used to do it, you will have no problems with concentricity using the turns. The only thing with the turns, if you are going to use them in the traditional way, is they are powered with a bow which means you are only cutting with one hand. This does take some practice to get used to. You still see the watchmakers lathes coming up with hand wheels for driving them and again needs practice. If you learn to use the Jacot tool properly which you will need to do for polishing watch or balance staff pivots, you can then transfer part of that skill to the turns. Its very much like patting your head and rubbing your tummy.

You can buy drill stands for the dremel, I had one but it was not rigid enough for my liking, in fact because of its plastic construction it is not anywhere near rigid. They come in usefull for polishing but because they spin so fast they are not good for much else.
Paul.

[chris mabbott]

Joe,

Just to add a bit to what Paul has mentioned….

The Swiss turns are not fool proof as in… It takes a lot of practice and patience to get it right. The tool alone is not going to give you a…. Perfect first time.. Piece.
The Swiss turns is one part of a process which requires, skill, knowledge, proper cutting tools and a steady hand.
If you watch Stefan Pahlows videos you can see him using the traditional bow and also a motorized version.

Personally, I did horribly with the bow simply because it didn’t work well for me. I connected my turns to a variable speed motor which was a lot better for moi.

This being said, if you buy a decent watchmakers lathe, you can perform the same function, and many more, thus nullifying the need to purchase two machines and being more economical. Unless you want to of course 😈

The Jacot tool is a must if you’re going to be making your own staffs, even if you’re not, the staffs you purchase ready made will need adjusting… And also old staffs retouched.
The jacot can be used with bow, or motor as I use. The very much sought after grinding attachment for the jacot came motorized and with a handle, but this was a more modern Swiss attachment to increase precision and efficiency. So a motor can be used also.

Again, if you look at where these tools originated from, it was BEFORE mass use of electricity, so the only power source was by hand or water wheel, unless you have a pet squirrel in a tread mill 😆 Flinstones flash..

They were also developed in Europe at a time when mass production of parts did not exist, so each euro watch was made by a different individual and each part had to be fabricated to fit each watch on an individual basis.

It was only due to American industrialization and each company providing interchangeable parts, that the requirement for these tools in North America eventually disappeared as they became a none cost effective method. This is also why you see many mint and rarely used lathes on the market..

This eventually caught on in Europe as the Swiss and British were steamrollered over by the high American watch sales. Then they too turned to mass production.

Obviously there will always be split decisions on using the old ways, but only for some methods, not all. I don’t think any purist uses a candle, oil lamp or gas light, nor do many use potassium cyanide for cleaning over an ultrasonic or modern cleaning machine.

Ultimately you will find what works for you and develop your own techniques, which I will be looking forward to seeing. Individual techniques and ideas lead to innovation and this is always a good thing

[cazclocker]

Hi Chris, I decided I hadn’t posted on this forum for a while now, and I just saw your thread. WELL DONE MATEY! Actually I just acquired a larger lathe myself, and before I made my purchase I was strongly considering one of “the Asian-made clones”. I have never heard of the brand you bought – but the beauty of the many variations of the Seig machines seems to be that they are all-in-one….the lathe and the motor and the power transmission is all in one package. Also, I have heard that they are often ready to cut brass or steel right out of the box – but I agree, it’s likely wiser to go through each component by hand before even plugging it in.
Way to go!
…Doug in Arizona

[chris mabbott]

Hey Doug, my neighbor in Arizona, I used to live in Nevada, still have a place rented out there..

I did a post here on a Seig Mill that I picked up lately, and whereas I have only praise for Arceurotrade and Kieten, great guy, good service, he spent many hours on the horn with me, made a replacement to a broken vice immediately etc etc

I will say that… If you purchase the machine without the Prep service offered for $$$ it is not ready to plug and play. I mean, you can, but you would suffer some problems down the road due to it.

There were a lot of casting chips, most of the control bearings were not lubricated or had dirt and rust inside.
I changed all the bearings for better brands and did a total clean and scrape, especially on the axis control wheels where about 5mm of paint was between the frame and bearing housings, after the service it operated very smoothly and so far I have no complaints as it’s a nice solid rig that has effortlessly chewed through what I’ve fed it so far..

Problem is, wading through the selection of products, the mass of un-information and countless opposing opinions. 20 guys = 20 different opinions, doesn’t anyone agree AHHHH 😆 All I wanted to know was…. is this or that brand any good, does it cut well, show me a photo with a hand beside it for size… SOMETHING 🙄

Even the Optimum web site shows 1 tiny photo, nothing more, not even photos of their attachments. I bought it because I saw it in person.. nothing more..

I think the Seig is marketed in the U.S as grizzly??

[willofiam]

Hey Chris, looks like fun. William

[cazclocker]

Hi Chris, I agree the choice of Asian-made lathes is absolutely dizzying and often confusing. Before I decided to spring for an old Rivett “precision bench lathe” (as they called it in the day) I was going to buy an 8″ x 20″ Seig-clone distributed by Little Machine Shop in Los Angeles. That’s who I bought my mini-mill from, and I’ve been VERY happy with it. But I think you did very well with the one you chose. I sort of choose to believe that the skill of the operator is as important as the quality of the machine. I remember reading somewhere that Vincent Van Gogh used to buy the cheapest brushes he could get because he couldn’t afford the nice ones made from sable. And now, his artwork is revered by many as being near the top, if not at the very top.
…Doug

[willofiam]

O.K. Doug….NOW you have to post pics of your Rivett I am currently looking into something similar to what you may have. William

[bernie weishapl]

Doug hit the nail on the head. My grandfather always told me the Machine doesn’t make the man. Over my years in metal working and woodworking I have seen some absolutely beautiful work with machines that you wondered how they even were still working.

[chris mabbott]

I agree for sure, a good machine operator can make a watch whistle him the time on any machine after knowing the little intricacies.
Some of those guys on YouTube have machines with a ton of slop in them, but they simply know how to adjust and compensate..

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