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October 1, 2014 at 8:22 am #49246
Howdy, going thru this older Hermle clock movement (Hermle 340-020) and noticed that ALL the pivots were a duller finish than I am used to seeing, just the pivots and shoulders. taking a closer look at them they do not appear to have the “normal” flaking of the outer surface but it looks to me that there was some problem of the coating sticking to the surface. I have never seen this before, if you have or have heard of such a thing please let me know. WilliamOctober 1, 2014 at 11:21 am #59611jim1228Participant
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No, normally you should see a nice nickle looking finish. Kinda strange
JimOctober 1, 2014 at 11:45 am #59612bernie weishaplParticipant
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William I am on the road for a few days but thought I would answer. The only time I have seen that is if the plating has worn off. Buff the end of one pivot and see if it will shine up. Most times if the plating has peeled off I either repivot or replace the movement if there are to many pivots that have peeled.October 1, 2014 at 1:08 pm #59613chris mabbottParticipant
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If there is NO flaking, this could mean that a different finish was used when the plating was done. The plating process can be manipulated for three types of finish..
1. Shiny, has high wear resistance but can be affected by moisture and can flake
2. Dull, has a better wear resistance and is not easily affected by environmental conditions
3. Matte finish..
I’ve seen this on medals and some WW1 weapons in an attempt to stop them rusting.. If you’re not seeing the typical flaking, then this could be a reason.
One thing about the watch/clock industry, they were always testing new methods, so nothing is a surprise 😯October 1, 2014 at 5:53 pm #59614
Thanks guys, there are a few spots where there is a bit of (chrome, nickle ?) still on a pivot or 2. This is not the usual flaking that we usually see on these type of pivots. I guess I am thinking it is possible that someone had polished the coating off since it is a pretty uniform surface on most ALL of the pivots. well….have to go and bang my head on the wall for now, thanks and have a terrific evening, WilliamOctober 3, 2014 at 6:44 pm #59615
O.K. In the middle of doing something else today it had dawned on me that the way I cleaned this hermle movement may have caused the pivots to appear they had lost the chrome/ nickle plating. I soaked the parts in simple green for approximately 1/2 hour then rinsed thoroughly then put into the ultrasonic ammoniated cleaning solution for approximately 10 minutes.
Below you will see the results of my recent experiment…..in the first photo a dirty original hermle pivot, still shinny with the chrome/ nickle plating and pitting/ flaking a bit. The next picture is after the same cleaning I did on the other movement with the simple green, the effect was the same with the same results as before.
Since then I have thrown the simple green bottle away……. I am not remembering what it says about using it on chrome ( I read it on some label)…..BUT there is definitely some kind of surface reaction happening to mainly just the pivots (which is weird).
To me…. while testing this phenomena, the surface of the pivots felt soft and rough after the cleaning. I was able to somewhat polish them with a wood stick and fine polishing compound but had to use a steel burnisher to get the pivots back to a smooth shinny surface.
My conclusion…..stick to the tried and true, so far anything I have tried that is out of the horological norm has resulted in scary and uncertain results….thats just my opinion….I DO NOT want to hinder creative thinking….
P.S. Paul, I wanted to leave the photos larger so that we can see the difference clearer, If thats o.k.
WilliamOctober 4, 2014 at 5:24 pm #59616chris mabbottParticipant
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Well, you got them back to looking good William, so rectification of issue is your reward. Simple Green is an all purpose cleaner, I wash my hair with it, it’s safe 😆
But, when you add any product to a bombardment chamber, USC machine, it significantly alters the properties on an almost molecular level, heat accelerates this effect. Many of these products are not intended for use in a USC unit, mainly because on the molecular level, they are not suited to being pelted at other objects 😆
I tried a product that Steffan Pahlow told me about, his parts always look polished. I ordered a small bottle from Germany, it was 60 euros a liter OUCH, but man it worked great because it was developed for USC’s
Ammonia is nasty stuff anyway, I never use it, only on my toilet 😆
I have my tried and true sauces for various materials, but when I do use the USC, I keep my temp to about 50c and I use a mixture of… lets say, 7 parts water, a few drops of liquid dish soap, a half cup of environmentally friendly lemon degreaser, and a half a cup of naphtha.
Y’all are thinking BOMB, but I tested it with an open flame outside with matches, and a butane torch, no flame, too diluted to be flammable. I even threw matches into the mixture and they went out 😆 but man does it leave a nice shine on brass, steel, silver, gold, name it..
If you look at the new “best” USC units, I mean those that cost you your house, they are all setup to use naphtha or other potentially explosive fluids, because those fluids do the job. These machines utilize a vapor evacuation system to prevent fumes building up and so that you don’t inhale them..
I posted a link to one of these machines on the forum, you should check it out, great vid
Great close up shots my brother
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