Hamilton 917 Banking Pin Bent…or, Adjusted?

[maitai11]

Gents,

I’m working on my Hamilton 917 17 Jewel Movement. I noticed that the right side pressed-in banking pin is tilted to the right, quite obvious to me. See my pics:

1. Rear (dial side,) showing the “Non-adjustable” pressed-in pins

2. From the front (Balance side), a pic showing the balance, pallet, and escape wheel jewels all in a line, and the “bent” banking pin to the right of that line.

3. A little closer shot of #2

Thanks, Guys.

Best,

Tim

[arutha]

I am not a watch expert but that looks “adjusted” heavy handidly to me. I don’t know what the others will suggest but if it were me I would stick the watch back together and see if it did need to be adjusted that much and if so why?
Paul.

[maitai11]

Thanks Paul,

It’s completely taken down and will be cleaned, etc. I did notice that the watch ran before I started servicing it, but it also stopped on its own, as well. I know that could be from being dirty, too. Thanks for chiming in, and yes, that was my thought too – brute force

Best,

Tim

[arutha]

@maitai11 wrote:

that was my thought too – brute force

You are going to see plenty of that
You see plenty of it on clocks too but its probably a bit easier to deal with in most cases just because of the size.
Paul.

[maitai11]

Agreed.

If the watch runs well, I won’t mess around with it…it will just have to become part of that particular watch’s “character,” so to speak Otherwise, I’ll have to try and gently coax it back in the right direction, and hope it holds. I don’t imagine something as important and permanent as that will take too kindly to being moved around much. I’ll let you know after it’s cleaned and back together.

Best,

Tim

[randy]

Tim,
They can break off pretty easily..just see if it runs,..and if you have to,..make very small adjustments of one pin at a time.

R

[bernie weishapl]

I agree with Randy. Get it cleaned, assembled and oiled. See how it runs and if it will run a full winding without stopping. If it does leave it and if it doesn’t make very small adjustments very carefully. Those pins do break easily if you get a little heavy handed with it.

[maitai11]

Thank you, Randy, I appreciate that good information. Good to hear from you

You too, Bernie, it seems my gut reaction has been this all along, ever since I first saw it regarding not only the cause of the bend, but also my way forward…

…Except for that OTHER gut reaction, which would be, “Why would some hack do this to such a beautiful piece of work?” Oh yeah, that’s a real, real strong reaction going on inside my chest and stomach. I bet in yours, too. That’s part of why I posted closer pics…to get some sort of group outrage and insulted, offended disdain going! Hahaha…

So, yeah, fellas, I’ll be reassembling and lubing this one carefully, without disturbing that pin. I believe it will be fine, because it ran beforehand, although it did stop after a minute or so – but that’s not the banking pin, in my grasshopper opinion – more likely the grime, which was visible easily under power – the balance cap jewel was filthy!

Best,

Tim

[chris mabbott]

I agree with the former suggestions of leaving them be, if it runs, great.
There’s an old adage that can be applied but, I can’t repeat it here, if you’re interested just e me and ill reveal all

The 917 models (1937-1957) were produced during the transition period where wristwatches were acing out pocket watches. Also in a time of fierce competition with Swiss firms. The friction fit banking pins were a low cost solution to the price wars. No threading nor special tooling required to fit the adjustable offset pins.
It should also be remembered that the 917 was meant for pocket and wrist application.
These were also advertised as using elvinar hairsprings, so check your spring as to which type you have.

I seem to remember seeing an ad about sending this type of watch back to the factory for setting. Maybe this was due to the issue of fixed pins?

I’ve seen a couple of 917s posted that have had material removed rather than bending, but that is a very precise operation and was possibly performed at the factory..

It should be considered that these components are a matched set, escape – pins. This pin was bent , I would say, because of any or all of the following ..

1. The original fork was replaced.

2. Pallet stones had been replaced and were not positioned correctly. The resulting assumed problem was seen as a banking issue so the pins were bent.

3. Any of the other usual culprits of oscillation/timing issues where banking is the first thing, incorrectly looked at or assumed to be responsible.

The damage has been done to the pins, the only correct solution would be to accurately determine the correct diameter of the pins and fabricate new replacements. But then you’d have to completely start from scratch via correct alignment and depthing each component in relation to it’s mate.. That ain’t easy my brother!

[maitai11]

Hey Chris,

Thanks for all that great info.

Loved the history you brought to bear. Very interesting, indeed!

By the way, I have been wondering if there was a direct message feature on the board, but haven’t been able to find it. If you could steer me in the right direction, I would appreciate it – because I am all about adages!!!

Best,

Tim

[tukat44]

Chris, I too love adages and rules of thumb like, if it aint broke, don’t fix it. Bent and broke are different, so my initial reaction is leave it alone until it proves problematic, and I need a solution that will (hopefully) make things right……

Tukat

[maitai11]

Fellas,

It works like a charm

After I reinstalled the pallet lever correctly (versus UPSIDE DOWN ), things went very smoothly. I’m wondering why anyone would do that in the first place – except to say that whomever did it is/was a hack, and not truly dedicated to the preservation of the original timepiece. Hackers!

I’ve learned a lot on this thread. Thanks to all who contributed to this great learning experience!

Best,

Tim

[chris mabbott]

@maitai11 wrote:

I’m wondering why anyone would do that in the first place – except to say that whomever did it is/was a hack

Well, yes and no. Bending of pins, while not the correct way, was practiced often, as was pig earing. Also known as tweaking. Friction pins are an SOB to set, I’m sure at the factory they had some method, a template or gauge perhaps, with which to acheive a preset condition prior to press in? I would say that material removal would also be an acceptable aesthetic method, bending would be dead last.

We never know the history, nor whose hands these have been in, or the circumstances surrounding them, there could be many reasons, usually economics. One scenario..If you took your 5 yr old $70 watch in for repair and option 1 was $50, option 2 was $250, but both would give you a functioning time piece, which would you choose?

[maitai11]

Yes Chris, I see what you’re doing with the comparisons there…

But how about this one? What it he went for the $50 option and the pin broke? Then he’d be in for a $300 FIX!!!

Oi, the thought dazzles me!

Tim

[chris mabbott]

I guess it’s like when the alternator dies on your vehicle, I don’t know many people who choose the $400 brand new one over the $80 reconditioned model. For all we know they could simply spray some contact cleaner in it. We take a chance because we see $$$$ right now, not the future expense if it only lasts 3 months

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