Excapement works only without pendulum.

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  • #48929
    ewinrow
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    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    Good morn to all. I have a rack and snail movement out of my grandmother clock that was in bad shape. After teardown, inspection, cleaning and another inspection after cleaning real good and then reassembly it runs extremely well until I hang the pendulum that came with the clock. Then it slowly comes to a halt. Upon teardown all pivots, bushings and gears looked to be in good shape. I have it in my movement holder right next to me and my ear and leveled, it’s running like a champ. Even though it sounds good without having anything to actually hear the beat clearly, is it possible that it is still out of beat and should I make an attempt to make any adjustments to the escapement? Also the clock was very dirty and not running when I purchased it from my neighbor for a very good price. On the movement the only things I can see are. MAUTHE, 45/100 and 787428. If this is any help. Both main springs are barreled and they were not set when I cleaned and oiled both of them. :? As of right now, it’s a dime holding up a dollar :| I didn’t take any before or after pics, sorry.

    #56491
    arutha
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 85
    • Total Posts: 1536

    Nice quality clock Ed, if you listen to the clock and it goes slightly in and out of beat you will find the pallet arbor bushes need doing. If it is not going in and out of beat then you need to check the train to make sure you dont have a tight pivot somewhere, excessive wear in the pivots allows the gears to sit at slight angles, this can put extra pressure on the next gear and bind things up. Also check the escape wheel for bent teeth or even a tooth. These are the main things to check before attempting any adjustment on the escapement.
    Let us know what you find.
    Paul.

    #56492
    bernie weishapl
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 58
    • Total Posts: 1218

    I agree with Paul. Ed you need to check the escape wheel for bent teeth. I would also check the verge and escape wheel pivots. If you see any movement of the pivots in the holes they probably need bushed. If they are ok I would look elsewhere down the train. Make sure you don’t have any bent teeth on any of the wheels and make sure wheels are all straight. Something in your time train is robbing it of power. It is possible that the spring mechanism on your verge may be weak and need tightened. I have seen that happen. Any little movement of the verge when it engages the escape wheel when it slows down to normal run can put it out of beat and stop the clock. Good luck and let us know what you run into.

    #56493
    ewinrow
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    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    Thanks for the advice gents, I will take it back down and re-inspect everything with finer detail. I have checked the teeth on the escape wheel all are nice and straight and all there. Arutha, you mentioned that it was a nice quality clock, was it something in the #’s stamped on the plate and the name on there, (MAUTHE.) Is that the makers name on it? Also for future reference how shalt I notice the better quality movements? Clock movements are new to me, I am use to working wristwatches and pocket watches. I have the movement on stands and will tear it back down tomorrow with fresh eye’s. I will post my findings sometime tomorrow. Again thanks for the opinion of both you and Bernie.

    #56494
    arutha
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 85
    • Total Posts: 1536

    hi Ed,
    Mauthe just make good quality clocks, it is the maker. The best way to learn about good or not so good clocks is to read and research. Looking at clocks on e-bay is a good way to learn, if you see something interesting then go to google and type in the name etc, get a little background, whilst resisting the temptation to bid ;)
    Paul

    #56495
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    Hi Arutha.

    I know what you are saying and I do research which movements are better than others. This is one that I never heard of and didn’t do my homework on it, I will now though. I haven’t been on eBay for the last three weeks. In actuality I’m concentrating on what I currently have in m y arsenal. (Current stock.) :) Also if it makes much difference, most of my experience with clocks have been with 30 day movements and as we both know most of them or of Asian and or Hispanic construction. Now that I am venturing out to more European movements I just have to do more research as they pass my way. 💡 With this Mauthe, I never ever heard of the name until now. I didn’t even know that was the name when I seen it. My concern was focused on the stamped #’s 45/100.

    With this particular movement although it being a decent movement it has seen better days. Again I tore it down and this time totally. 1 bushing fell out from somewhere and I can’t find a place for it. I polished and inspected all of the pivot ends, escapement wheel is in good shape and checked the pendulum where I noticed that apparently it was broken at one time and someone welded it back together. May not even be the right one. I say this movement has seen better days due to the poor workmanship that I have been seeing. It’s obvious to me that most work done on it was done by a “WATCHBREAKER” as opposed to a watchmaker. 😯 It’s still doing the same thing but worse, now instead of running and gradually coming to a halt it just stops as if a gear has jammed with another instead of meshing as they should. I have also made several adjustments to the pallet fork all to no avail. I’m going to continue to play with it but I may just purchase another one and use this one for a training device. I want the clock to run, can’t sell it broken. I want it running but I am also determined to figure out what’s up with this current movement. Once repaired correctly, I can place it into another cabinet. :) I’ll keep you abreast of my progress. Thanks for your help and info.

    #56496
    bernie weishapl
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 58
    • Total Posts: 1218

    Ed you can find if a wheel is binding by laying the clock down on the back plate using assembly posts. Take a screwdriver, broach, etc and lift each wheel. Each wheel should have up and down movement and it should fall back after it is lifted. If they don’t it is either binding, bent pivot or has no endshake. If there is no end shake (must have endshake) between the plates that will stop the clock. More than once putting a clock back together especially higher up in the train where the thin pivots are I have bent one and is very easy if not careful. I do this check for endshake, etc on each and every movement I tear down, repair, clean and reassemble. Since I started doing this on the advice of a old clockmaker who is no longer alive about 25 yrs ago I have never fully assembled a clock and put it on the test stand and not run because of the train wheels.

    If a bushing fell out then there has to be a place for it. I helped a guy back in January who couldn’t get a hermle movement to work. What happened was he had the top pivot on the 3rd wheel in one hole on the top and the wrong hole on the bottom. Put it in the proper hole and walla it ran. Had one Hermle 241 today that had been to another shop that had a bent escape wheel pivot. She told me it never worked since he had it in his shop for repair. He still charged her $100. I told her to go back and get her money back. She did. She told him she was going to go to the county attorney.lol So I disassembled, repaired the pivot, cleaned, polished the pivots, oiled, and put it on test stand. It has been running since 11 am this morning. Just some things to think about and a good practice to do above. Hope this helps.

    Oh don’t know if you have these yet but check out timersavers catalog for these:

    Plate spreader #20401 It spreads the plates for easy adjustments and also doubles as you can check that wheels run true especially when you straighten the pivots.

    Assembly Posts #22830 and #29753 the second one is used for triple chime clocks that still have the hammers on them. I have 8 of the first on and 4 of the second.

    #56497
    ewinrow
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 26
    • Total Posts: 185

    Hey Bernie,
    Some good stuff their. I like you always check for end play. Everything was ok in that area. I really think that this movement just seen better days. I have made-up my mind to get it running and just use it for a learning movement. Or find a cabinet to place it in when I get it running. I have already spent to much time with this headache, however their could be a slight bend on one of the pivots that slipped by me. On the next teardown I will carefully check them all. The bushing still puzzles me. I’m wondering could it had just been left there from the last person who worked it? :? I have a new movement on the way. I’d like to get this grandmother clock up and running. It has already been here to long. Can’t make any money off a dead clock. Besides that I could use the space. :) I thank you and everyone here on the form who are always willing to help those like me who need it, Ed.

    #56498
    bernie weishapl
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 58
    • Total Posts: 1218

    I know what you mean Ed. I had one of those when I first started and will say I finally did get it working. It was a good thing it was my clock because I would have had to charge $1500 for all the hours I spent on it but I looked at it as I gained experience on it. You will get it. One other thing you can do is to leave the verge out after you assemble the clock. Take the chain wheel or wind a couple of winds on the mainspring. See if it will go. It should take off and wind down. If it stops immediately or soon after you start it, you still have something binding. Generally when I have these problems with the time side I just assemble the clock with the time train. Once I find the problem and correct it then I will assemble the rest of the clock. Add the verge and see what happens.

    I had one yesterday that was a older kenizle wall clock about 1920’s. I had taken it down for the usual repairs, clean and oil. It ran on the test stand strong and really well. So I added the dial and hands. I put it in the clock case and it stopped within 5 minutes. To make a long story short what I found was the I hadn’t seated the chime cam gear that lifts the strike lever on center arbor enough so when I put the minute hand on it was binding on the hour hand. I seated the gear lower on the arbor and it has been working great since. It need to be seated about another 1/64″ and all is good.

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ewinrowExcapement works only without pendulum.