Cleaning Solution Question. Strength of Ammonium Hydroxide?

[Brian 784]

I’m using Bob’s recipe for the UltraSonic Cleaning solution, which is…

4oz Acetone
4oz Oleic Acid
4oz Dish Soap
1 gallon water
8oz Ammonia Hydroxide

My question is the strength of the Ammonium hydroxide. I’m buying 28-30% solution, as shown here..
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09MDP2SPN?ref=fed_asin_title

…and this stuff seems awfully strong. When mixing at the ratios shown above, I really do need to wear a mask and other safety gear considering the fumes. Then after it’s mixed, it’s still pretty strong when it’s in the cleaner. When I remove the ultrasonic lid, I can sometimes get kind of blown back by the fumes.

Just checking if this 28-30% is the correct strength. I see that I can also buy a 10% strength and a 5% strength. I don’t think that the instructional videos mention what strength is recommended, so I thought that I’d ask.  Thanks in advance.

 

[Nelson Terry]

Hi Brian 784

What you’re experiencing makes perfect sense.

28-30% ammonium hydroxide is commercial strength stuff. Household and janitorial ammonia is usually more like 5–10%.
So if the recipe was written with normal ammonia in mind and you use 28–30% you’ve just tripled or more the amount of ammonia available to come back out of the tank as vapor.

And an ultrasonic doesn’t help you here since it heats, agitates, and aerosolizes. When you pop the lid you can get a concentrated blast right in the face. (You’ve already discovered that the hard way.) Good to wait a little while before opening the lid.

I would try 5% or 10% ammonia. You should be able to save what you have by dilute it 3 to 1 with water and increase the other ingredients to bring them back up to where they should be.?? Just my 2 cents.

Good luck,

Nelson

I just thought of what might be an easier way. You could just dilute the solution with water 3 to 1 and add back the necessary proportions of the other ingredients.

 

• This reply was modified 3 months ago by Nelson Terry.

[Brian 784]

Thank you.

[MikeJohannesen]

Hi Brian,

The Ammonia I use is from Lab Alley and is indeed strong. It is lab grade and is about 27-30%. This solution definitely will open up your sinuses when using it. But let me tell you, it cleans old grimy, tarnished brass like there is no tomorrow. I have been reading on some other blogs, that using something like Dr Bronners Castile soap instead of Oleic acid and TSP, works just as well and it much more cost effective. My next mix of new solution will be using that instead of the Oleic and TSP.  I will post my cleaning results when I determine if this works as well as Bob’s formula. As far as the ammonia strength goes, like everything else, the weaker it is, the longer it takes to clean.  So if the fumes really bother you, try using the weaker ammonia for your next batch and see how it works.

Good Luck

Mike

 

[Brian 784]

Thanks Mike.

And after googling around, I found that others using this recipe are indeed also using the strong 28-30% stuff. And don’t get me wrong, it isn’t unbearable. But I’m certainly no chemist, and I wanted to know if what I was experiencing is the norm just for safety reasons. The recipe is indeed very effective at cleaning!

So my main question was whether or not the 28-30% was the correct ingredient for Bob’s recipe, and it appears to be so. I don’t remember him specifying the strength within his videos, hence the question and thank you for the answer.

But I think that I’m going to move my cleaning station farther away from my main bench just to keep the fumes away from my main area. And always a face shield and gloves while cleaning. Then when I’m initially mixing it, that’s when the ammonium hydroxide can really hit me, so I additionally wear a lab mask and this removes the fumes entirely. Additionally, I’m draining it back into the jugs after every use just to keep it from creating more fumes when I’m not cleaning and also to prevent evaporating.

Thank you. I had a feeling that I had this right, but wasn’t sure.

(also, I checked your source at Lab Alley. If you are interested, looks like this is less expensive by about $10 per bottle)

[Darrell]

Hi All

I may be throwing a wrench in the works here, but I decided to go ahead.  There have been many discussions in the horology world about ammonia based cleaners, and the pros & cons of them.

Some time ago, I cleaned a small alarm clock’s parts with an ammonia based cleaner (not a strong ammonia) in an ultrasonic cleaner.  The parts were very bright when I took them out of the machine.  Ammonia is great for cutting dirt, oil, and grit.  Another thing ammonia will do is attack and etch metals, especially brass.  The stronger the solution, the higher the temperature, and the longer the exposure, the more the amount of etching will occur.  When I examined the bright parts under the microscope, I saw that the entire surface was pitted from the ammonia.  To me, this comes under the “Do no harm” part of restoration.  Personally, I will be avoiding ammonia in my cleaners, but many professionals do still use it.  I would recommend sticking to Bob’s formula, and find out what concentration of ammonia he uses.  I would also recommend keeping the time in the solution to a minimum.

I may need to do some mechanical cleaning of my parts, but I will never forget that pitted surface under the microscope.

[Brian 784]

Thanks for the insight. Appreciated.

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