cleaning

[digitaltripper]

Hi all…I currently clean all clocks and watches by hand. My current cleaning solution is:

3 1/3 oz Murphy’s Oil Soap
6 2/3 oz Acetone
20 oz Household Ammonia

To this add water to make one gallon (In the US an old milk jug works great). I have used this on clocks and watches and it works great for me. I rinse with HOT water and then dry using heat (hairdryer). I have not had any problems.

DO NOT USE on pallet fork or balance because it will remove the shellac from jewel mounts. If you clean lacquered plates in this solution and wish to keep it that way do not leave in the solution for a long period of time as it does remove lacquer !!

Jim

[watchthebear]

Hi all, and Hello Tripper: could you give more specifics about the ingrediants you use? Reason: here in Cal. where they try to control every action of all lives, you can find 40%, 60%. 80% potencys of all types of things due to disposal and recycleing regulations. that is: 50% solution and container might go in regular trash, 100% of same might require a trip to the toxic waste site–it’s crazy.

Second Question. Could you give times in solution for various operations? Also, would the times be different if you were doing a batch of hands, or other tiny parts, as opposed to plates and large bridges? If so, could you give some ideas as to times. Any one else: please jump in. Thanks for all your help folks………………………….b

[Bob Tascione]

Hi B,
I haven’t tried Jims solution so not too sure on what times works best. I’ll send him an email in a few minutes letting him know that you’re asking about it and hopefully he can come up here and help.

Take care for now and keep having fun B!,
Bob

[digitaltripper]

@watchthebear wrote:

Hi all, and Hello Tripper: could you give more specifics about the ingrediants you use? Reason: here in Cal. where they try to control every action of all lives, you can find 40%, 60%. 80% potencys of all types of things due to disposal and recycleing regulations. that is: 50% solution and container might go in regular trash, 100% of same might require a trip to the toxic waste site–it’s crazy.

Second Question. Could you give times in solution for various operations? Also, would the times be different if you were doing a batch of hands, or other tiny parts, as opposed to plates and large bridges? If so, could you give some ideas as to times. Any one else: please jump in. Thanks for all your help folks………………………….b

Hi watchthebear…
Yes here in lovely California, we regular people can’t have proper chemicals like naphtha and mineral spirits as it may be hazardous to someone or something. Here in California we can not get film developed any longer either because of chemicals involved. Here in California, life for people who “get it done” is hard because of all those who don’t……

In answer to your first question, all of the mentioned cleaning supplies are still available here in California…I do NOT expect them to be available forever though as someone will want them banned for whatever reason so I suggest that you stock up.

Percentages….That’s a tough one at least for the ammonia. I am using extra strength household ammonia. The brand is 2force. From the website listed on the bottle: http://www.champakinc.com/pdf/ammonia/sunbrite_ammonia.pdf
it states Sunbrite ammonia (I believe it is the same as the 2force package that I have) is composed of Ammonia Hydroxide 4.0% by weight. I am guessing that this is not as strong as what Bob mixes in the videos, but it does get the job done.

Now here I must admit that I am not a chemist so I do not know what the actual percentages in this formula are, but I can tell you that this mix works great for me.

As for Time In Solution for parts to soak, depends on if you pre-cleaned major grease off the plates, how tarnished, etc. Also as the solution gets older, it takes a bit longer, but it still works.

The last clock I cleaned took about 30min. And the used solution in the photo has had nine clocks of varying degrees of grease/oil/dirt on them put into it. as I said, the last one took about 30min. I plan on using that cleaner til it cleans no more…

What I do:
Put the parts in a container as shown.(container from dollar tree here in calif.)

Add the cleaning solution so that it covers the parts (You can flip parts of course if they stick out, OR get a deeper container)
Let them soak for about 10 min. Remove each part and brush. Place back in solution if not bright enough for another 10min. Check parts, if not bright enough back in they go etc. (Lather, Rinse, Repeat…you get the idea.)
When done, for clocks, using an identical container, I rinse under hot tap water letting the water over flow the container and dropping the parts in the container. BE CAREFUL HERE and do not let parts go down drain. Only takes a minute to rinse…
My clock instructor uses a enameled double boiler setup(Pot with strainer in it) and after water rinse, dunks parts in pot filled with denatured alcohol to remove water.
For watches, shake off as much cleaning solution as possible then I rinse using LR #3 Watch rinse (naphtha and mineral spirits) (I have a mechanical cleaning machine now so I don’t do watches by hand as much)
For BOTH clocks and watches, DRY THOROUGHLY with you trusty thrift store hair dryer (or in oven place parts on cookie sheet at 200 deg) until dry.

As for disposal of used cleaner, with the exception of the acetone, all chemicals used are of the household variety. That being said please don’t dump them in the river. I think a bag of kitty litter would come in handy to soak up used cleaner. Check you local landfill/recycle as they can help you decide how to dispose of your used cleaning supplies.

I hope this helps !

Jim Barker

[willofiam]

Hi yall, the murphys oil soap has the oleic acid in it, I think there are other soaps out there too that have the oleic acid. I heard that when your solution gets “old” just recharge with the ammonia, doesnt matter what color it has become it will still work. I first tried this a month ago and it did bring my solution back to life. I mix what Bob cooked up for clocks and use a ultrasonic, using a phosphate free TSP from Menards, oleic acid, as powerful ammonia as I can find….. I recently cut out the acetone thinking that was making it too strong for lacquered plates, (not sure if that really is helping, maybe a little) and of coarse water….I rinse in the hot water, have used either isopropyl alcohol or denatured alcohol (seems to me the denatured is more “oily” if that would describe it right than the isopropyl) otherwise not sure what would be best and then dry in a dryer box I built….have a great day, William

[watchthebear]

Hello folks, thanks Jim for the detailed response. I will need time to digest (not the cleaning solution!). I will certainly try your method. My concern is to get the drying right. I will be doing pocket watch parts, but i don’t think that should make much difference. Thanks again…………………b

[digitaltripper]

@willofiam wrote:

Hi yall, the murphys oil soap has the oleic acid in it, I think there are other soaps out there too that have the oleic acid. I heard that when your solution gets “old” just recharge with the ammonia, doesnt matter what color it has become it will still work. I first tried this a month ago and it did bring my solution back to life. I mix what Bob cooked up for clocks and use a ultrasonic, using a phosphate free TSP from Menards, oleic acid, as powerful ammonia as I can find….. I recently cut out the acetone thinking that was making it too strong for lacquered plates, (not sure if that really is helping, maybe a little) and of coarse water….I rinse in the hot water, have used either isopropyl alcohol or denatured alcohol (seems to me the denatured is more “oily” if that would describe it right than the isopropyl) otherwise not sure what would be best and then dry in a dryer box I built….have a great day, William

Hey Willofiam, that’s a great idea with the ammonia !! I used the household variety as I do not know where in California I can get ammonia hydroxide. Same for the oleic acid which is why the Murphys Oil Soap. The acetone is what eats the lacquer so cutting that out should cause no plate issues. I am wondering now that you mentioned this just what the acetone does for the cleaner. Anybody know? or is this one of those situations where “Well this is how it’s made. It’s always been that way” kind of things…

I think your right about the denatured alcohol as well. I found 99% isopropal alcohol in little bottles at the grocery store but again, have not tried it as I learned the denatured way….

I have not tried TSP in the cleaner, but I recently made a batch and added about a tablespoon of Dawn dish washing soap in the hopes if cutting the grease and oil better but I have yet to try it.

Go carefully

Jim

[digitaltripper]

@watchthebear wrote:

Hello folks, thanks Jim for the detailed response. I will need time to digest (not the cleaning solution!). I will certainly try your method. My concern is to get the drying right. I will be doing pocket watch parts, but i don’t think that should make much difference. Thanks again…………………b

Your welcome…I know it is a long answer to what should be a simple question but….see I started to do it again !!

Take care B

Jim

[willofiam]

Hey Jim, I looked hi and low 🙄 for some kind of “strong ammonia” and 99percent isopropyl alcohol, able to find 91 percent, around here I must be in a time warp as anything to do with clock supplies or half way decent tools is unable to be found!!!! 🙄 I had read somewhere that if you dont have the super strength ammonia then just add a higher percentage to the mix, ie. instead of 8 oz. put in 12 or 16oz., I think the strength of your ammonia you buy in the store has to do with how much water is added, but I am not sure. Also with my mixture it gets almost like jelly when cooled down, I have to heat it up to get it more “liquidy” if thats even a word William

[digitaltripper]

William, I don’t know where you are located but I found 99% iso alcohol here in the US at Safeway of all places here in California. It was down the shampoo beauty isle. “liquidy” or liquidity hehe I like that word…My solution is not that thick yet. I usually use it cold. I was told that if I heated it a bit, it would work faster. Someday I’ll get ultrasonic and it will have a heater built in and then we will see how fast it cleans….

Jim

[david pierce]

Works for me,
It looks like any number of chemicals work. I personally use Naptha in an ultrasonic cleaning machine and it does a fantistic job. I inatially tested the process by taking the machine out into my driveway and running it through a few cycles. There were no fire or explosion problems so now I use it inside. I bought the cleaning machine from Harbor Freight and the Naptha from Home Depot. They sell it by the gallon. After running the parts through a couple of cleaning cycles I put the parts on sheets of paper towels to air dry. It also did a great job on my wifes jewelery.
David Pierce

[willofiam]

Howdy , David, does that naptha leave a oily film??? Jim, I bought a new ultrasonic when I started, from prosonix. NOT a expert at these as this is the only kind I have owned, it seems to do a pretty good job and new it was quite a bit cheaper than most other models, 2 1/2 gallon, with 5, 55Khz transducers and heater under $400. William

[david pierce]

Willofam,
I did not detect any oily film on the parts after they dried. If any film is detected, a dip in laquer thinner would certainly remove any residual oil. The ultrasonic cleaning machine was $25.00 from Harbor Freight. A gallon of Naptha is about $17.00 and a pint of laquer thinner should be less than $10.00 from Home Depot. When doing a watch repair for the first time, experirment on a low cost part from an inexpensive watch or clock to make sure that the process works to your satisfaction. I was pleased with the results on the pilar plates, stems and gears so I took the plunge with the balance wheel and hair spring. I was very pleased with the results.
David

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