BANKING PIN Adjustment???

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  • #49320
    maitai11
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 62
    • Total Posts: 428

    Hi Guys,

    I’m on the home stretch here, but I’ve gotten hung up on something – so I’m sending up a flare here at 8:41 pm Hawaiian Standard Time, and maybe you’ll be up Chris, because I think you’re 13 hours ahead of me, which would put you right at around 7:30 am Spain time :)

    Anyways, Guys, please see the diagram, which I downloaded and modified since it had writing on it that was distracting. Also, ignore the arrow on the pallet, but not the escape wheel arrow, which you’ll understand in a minute. Ignore the wording as well.

    The watch is at the point at which I would normally install the balance – but, there is a problem with locomotion, and I’m going to try and explain this the best way I can. Whew! This noob learning stuff is FUN!!! I am amazed at how much I am learning by watching the gears and pinions, clutches and pins in action. Anyway, on to my problem…

    First, some bullet points:

    – The movement is assembled all the way up to the pallet installation
    – Everything has been demagnetized.
    – The train moves freely without the pallet installed – all pivots are centered and turning nicely.
    – Now that the pallet is installed, it’s pivots also are freely moving and working correctly.
    – Per Bob’s video (I am following it pretty much step by step,) the movement is now under power.
    – Everything has been oiled or greased as appropriate to this point. Oil for the pivots, grease for the cannon pinion and metal-on-metal parts, and the escape wheel/pallet jewels were also oiled. My method was to apply oil to every other “heel” of the escape wheel “feet” that contact the pallet jewels, as in Bob’s video.

    So, with that, by moving the pallet fork from side to side, it’s supposed to “snap” when moved each time – but it only does so when I push it from right to left. In other words, when the “entry” sequence is performed, the escape wheel snaps nicely. However, when I move the pallet fork from left to right, the “toe” of the “foot” of the escape wheel gets hung up on the exit jewel impulse face. It literally is hanging up just by a hair – but a hair is all it takes to ruin this little party…So, when I nudge the escape wheel forward, to get that toe unstuck, it does so quite easily – and then I am able to repeat the entry sequence in a snappy way, until I get to the point where this problem happens again after only one snap. :)

    With all of this, I’m wondering if an adjustment to the RIGHT banking pin, allowing the exit jewel impulse face to move ever so slightly to the LEFT would allow that escape wheel “toe” to pass and let me get back on to the Party Time Expressway…I hope that’s all that’s needed, because I have absolutely NO jewel tools, whatsoever :(

    So, whaddaya think, Guys? :ugeek: :geek: :ugeek: :geek: :ugeek: :geek: :ugeek: :geek: (<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Tascione Forum Super Duper Horologists just WAITING to help Tim out :) )

    Thanks, and have a great morning/evening!

    Best,

    Tim

    OoooooKaaayyyyy…I cannot upload the graphic I wanted to use, so please cut and paste the link and go to:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=photo+of+pallet+jewel+and+escape+wheel+on+exit&sa=X&biw=1366&bih=673&tbm=isch&imgil=HPQyEUAEkOL_AM%253A%253Be3ktGH8xYDJIYM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.christopherward.co.uk%25252Fwatch_words_e.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=HPQyEUAEkOL_AM%253A%252Ce3ktGH8xYDJIYM%252C_&usg=__WSF-g4f1DpcT8MbPKghA-lggO1Q
    3D&ved=0CDUQyjc&ei=CoptVPLZNMmrjALysYH4Bg#tbm=isch&q=pallet+jewels+and+escape+wheel&imgdii=_

    And to the far right, there is a graphic that says “155×207 Timezone” at the bottom of the graphic itself. At current time, this particular graphic is to the end of the far right of the page. UPDATE: Location moves. Look for the graphic that says “Exit Pallet” at the top…) From there, flip that thing over 180 degrees, and you’ll have the POSITION where the TOE of the escape wheel hangs on the EXIT JEWEL IMPULSE FACE. Thanks Guys :) Tim :)

    #60641
    chris mabbott
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 119
    • Total Posts: 1525

    Tim I couldn’t see the diagram, wouldn’t download..

    So without a visual aid I’m guessing… First check the basics..

    Pallet installed correctly
    Pallet stones are all secure, none loose
    Pallet pivots not bent
    Jewels in straight and jewel holes good
    If no jewels check the pivot holes for concentricity or wear. The pivots should not be sloppy.
    End shake on the pallet fork is not excessive

    Remove pallet fork, reassemble movement without the pallet. Put slight power to spring and see if the train spins well. It should slow down gradually the do a small reverse before stopping.

    With tension released, check the escape wheel end shake and work back..

    Reinstall the pallet fork and try it again.
    The pallet, without the balance, will only move L or R when you touch it. It will not go under power without the balance to drive it.

    Install the balance and attach the spring, give it a couple of winds and see what happens.

    Report back after these steps…

    #60642
    randy
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 39
    • Total Posts: 594

    Follow Chris’ advise…always good to start from the beginning, and then add the final elements while observing.
    You may find in the end, that all you need to do is to turn out one banking pin a bit,..as it may have moved during cleaning and handling,..but it’s best to know the condition of the whole train and escapement first…so that you don’t have to take it apart again later @!!!!!!!

    #60643
    maitai11
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 62
    • Total Posts: 428

    Thanks Guys…I’ll be doing just that when I get home in another 23 hours :)

    Best, Tim :)

    #60644
    maitai11
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 62
    • Total Posts: 428

    Well, Fellas,

    I carefully inspected the entire train per Chris’ instructions, and I found no anomaly that could openly explain the lack of clearance between the exit pallet jewel, and the escape wheel “foot.” If you will remember, the foot had to be manually (read: gently) forced through, in order to give the next foot room to travel through the entry pallet jewel.

    I pulled the pallet off, as well as the escape wheel and fourth wheel – all to no avail, in terms of a solution to the problem. I also traced back through the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd wheels, all of which seemed to be in good working order. I reassembled everything and said a little prayer : /

    It did the same thing. At this point, and with full knowledge that I had covered everything within my power and skill level, I opted for a banking pin adjustment. I turned the right pin clockwise from the bottom plate – just slightly – which, in turn, allowed the left pallet jewel to clear the escape wheel foot.

    Once I did that, I checked it by putting the watch under power, and each time I moved the pallet fork back and forth, I got that characteristic “snap” that Bob achieved in his videos. It was so beautiful to see the watch respond – and showing me the fruits of my labor! Now, it was time to put the balance in.

    I previously oiled the cap jewel into a “donut” size and shape, and the hairspring was attached and between the regulating pins. Before I knew it, the watch was ticking! The balance somehow found itself connected and running all by itself! The screw wasn’t even in yet. I continued to let the watch run, and checked all of my points of contact in case there was anything out of order – but, there wasn’t – the locating pins had found their holes, and all that was really left was to install the screw. Everything went just fine :)

    I took a few minutes to bask in the glow of satisfaction that I got from taking the watch down, cleaning it, oiling it, and reassembling it back into running condition. Fulfillment, indeed!

    I called it a night, and will reassemble the rest tomorrow when I get home :) When I texted my brother Joe, I told him just how much I had learned on this first watch – and that is, basically a mountain’s worth of information and experience.

    But I wouldn’t have been able to do any of it without you guys to guide my way (of course, you too, Joe!) Half the satisfaction comes from actually doing the task, and the other half comes from the satisfaction of knowing and working with all of you. Give yourself a round of applause, you deserve it!!!

    I’ll be in touch :)

    Best,

    Tim :)

    #60645
    randy
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 39
    • Total Posts: 594

    Way to go Tim !!!!

    When you get it all together..show us pic ????

    Best,
    Randy

    #60646
    maitai11
    Participant
    • Topics Started: 62
    • Total Posts: 428

    Thanks Randy!

    You bet, I sure will…and thank you for all the help and encouragement…Hey…I CAN think for myself sometimes – and not break a watch!!!

    :)

    Best,

    Tim :)

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maitai11BANKING PIN Adjustment???